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As I understand it...

Nestor2

Nestor2

Council Member
The economy won't recover very fast if consumers aren't spending money. Food, housing, heat, gas, medical, clothes are the first priorities for most families. This is especially true if they don't have much to spend.

47% of the country doesn't make enough to pay federal income taxes. That means 141 million people not having a large enough income to spend outside their first priorities, and many of them likely have to juggle those. To put it bluntly, they are not consuming enough to help the economy grow.

Tax cuts won't help them; they are already paying the minimum. Jobs would be a welcome assistance, but jobs are created when there is a demand for the services or products those workers provide. If they are not consuming--and others as well--demand will continue to lag and jobs created slowly if at all.

So what do we do to get the economy growing again?
 
What is needed is for those who aren't making enough money to pay taxes to have enough growth in their income that enables them to start paying taxes.

For those paying taxes to just pay a little more won't be even nearly enough. We also need more people paying into the system.

The cost of energy and gasoline has "necessarily skyrocketed" just as Obama told us it would before he was elected the first time. So somehow lowering those energy prices would also help people to have more disposable income

Raising taxes on the rich is not going to do anything to increase the paychecks of the working poor so that maybe only 40% or less of our populace isn't paying taxes, but it seems that's what we're going to do.
 
So what do we do to get the economy growing again?

Too late. We had our chance.

Election Day has come and gone, and Americans voted for the lowest common denominator. People are not in it to "make" they're in a mood to solely "take".

And as long as Obama is slinging out health care, unemployment, food stamps, and free phones, don't expect it to change.
 
Jen said:
What is needed is for those who aren't making enough money to pay taxes to have enough growth in their income that enables them to start paying taxes.

For those paying taxes to just pay a little more won't be even nearly enough. We also need more people paying into the system.

The cost of energy and gasoline has "necessarily skyrocketed" just as Obama told us it would before he was elected the first time. So somehow lowering those energy prices would also help people to have more disposable income

Raising taxes on the rich is not going to do anything to increase the paychecks of the working poor so that maybe only 40% or less of our populace isn't paying taxes, but it seems that's what we're going to do.
Click to expand...


Energy was high before the republicans crashed the market. Right before Bush left office it was at 4.12 average for gasoline, now it's at 3.21. So what you say about it is not true.

What needs to be done is for rich Americans to stop being so dam greedy that they have to sell their country men and women down the tubes to get a little more for themselves, WHICH I MIGHT ADD THEY DON'T NEED JEN. And we did fine under Clinton with 39% tax rate for the top. When we started to fall apart was with the lower taxes under Bush, along with killing regulations.

What needs to be done now is stop transferring the cost of local govt onto the middle class as the federal govt cuts taxes for the rich. You do realize that middle class citizens pay more of all taxes than those at the top.

The people who own business want greater profits Jen, and have cut wages, reduced benefits and outsourced work to third world countries.
This has an effect of dragging down wage growth as so many people need work and are willing to work for less.

It's time for some patriotism to found in the ranks of republicans and the wealthy.

You can't expect someone who hasn't enough, to pay more taxes, can you really? Do you really believe that people living in the middle income levels doing with less and paying more taxes would help the country?

The facts are this Jen, those who use this system of govt to make themselves wealthy owe it to the system to pay a far bigger share to the running of the country than a guy who is just a worker at one of their jobs of these people's companies.

Oh by the way, the only way to create demand is to pay better, hire more and consume more. Right now we need work and the country needs work to be done, like building roads, schools, a 21st century electrical system, a state of the art telephone system and much more. Industry does none of this without govt assistance. Name me a company that will spend their money on these items.

Laying off fire fighters, teachers, police and local govt workers does not create jobs, it kills jobs. Not doing what is needed by our country to progress as a nation is not moving us forward, it's killing us. And taking money out of the tax system to make wealthy people a little better off is not going to help anyone but them JEN.

You think different than explain how it will work your way.
 
Dino said:
So what do we do to get the economy growing again?

Too late. We had our chance.

Election Day has come and gone, and Americans voted for the lowest common denominator. People are not in it to "make" they're in a mood to solely "take".

And as long as Obama is slinging out health care, unemployment, food stamps, and free phones, don't expect it to change.
Click to expand...

What should pay for the things we need as a country Dino? Those who don't have enough to get buy? Or should it come from the profits made off having the system of govt that allows people to make as much money as they can. Nobody is stopping you from making more. The only thing this nation is saying is if you reach this level you pay this much over that in taxes.

A guy working for a company should not be the one paying for the overhead. The profits that a company makes after paying overhead should be the money that gets taxed to pay for needs of commerce. Otherwise a progressive income tax that allows for a certain amount of taxes like we have now is a fair system. Nobody is taking all your money. Don't be so stupid. If 610,000 out of a million isn't enough them make 2 million and keep 1,220,000. It's a cost of doing business.
 
I notice never entering the equation for the "generous" liberal is the thought of actually cutting spending....

Yikes, the HORROR!!
 
On that last part I have to disagree. Raise taxes on investment income and you'll see more money going into manufacturing. Those manufacturing jobs will increase the incomes of those who do not make enough to pay federal income taxes. Get rid of the incentive to make all 'your' income from the stock market. Reagan raised the tax rate on investment income, and so did Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford. Under Jimmy Carter the rate was lowered.

Capital gains do not deserve special treatment.
 
Yes...but how to do all that? In order for an economy to be on a firm footing, the people need to make more of their own money. Money from the government(s) will not be enough, nor should it be. There need to be jobs created and filled with the currently unemployed and under-employed. Just look at the opportunities Sandy created in the Northeast; clean-up at a minimum.

My dad was old enough to work in the CCC as a teen during the depression. He added needed revenue to the family's pot, and learned man-skills to boot. It allowed my grandfather's barbershop to stay open when there weren't enough heads needing cutting. It was a good thing all around.

Now would be a good time to consider some infrastructure spending, both federal and state, and give as many of those jobs as possible to people close by.
 
True, we may yet still avert a double dip. But if we don't, it would be more despite Obama rather than because he succeeded in it.
 
Obama is clearly overmatched trying to work this economy. He is tone-deaf on job creation and preservation and businesses both large and small do not trust him. The market reacted badly to his victory, and industry, facing the inevitable, made announcements for layoffs.

I don't know what it will take to send this message home any clearer.
 
Dino said:
Obama is clearly overmatched trying to work this economy. He is tone-deaf on job creation and preservation and businesses both large and small do not trust him. The market reacted badly to his victory, and industry, facing the inevitable, made announcements for layoffs.

I don't know what it will take to send this message home any clearer.
Click to expand...

forget it. you lost. go home
 
Obama's doing no such thing. The rich only got richer, and the middle class shrunk.

What planet are you on?
 
One cannot be firing, laying off and cutting wages of Americans then sitting on trillions of dollars of the "saved" expenses and expect that the economy is going to get better in the longer term. Employees are not just expenses and if one wants to balance expenses out, pay CEO's and upper management less and pay more at the low end.

How many times do we have to go over a very simple lesson about cause and effect. The unemployed have NO MONEY!!!! If more employers are firing and laying off American workers and sitting on the cash they save the economy not only stagnates, it shrinks again. The goverment has been willing to give CPR to the economy while the fat cats sit on mounds of cash and complain about the government trying to do something they won't and haven't done to solve what will be a problem of their own making. With fewer employed, there is less buying and with less buying, eventually the "savings" in layoffs, firings and benefits cost cutting are neutralized if not negated.

In a simplified example, if I own a company and I need to sell 15 items annually to keep my company's income stable (that means my pay and the pay of my employees) while I might save a lot by firing 10 employees, I have just lost 10 customers because those employees also bought our products, now they can't afford them. My best pal who owns the business next door fired 5 of his employees and those 5 made up the other 5 customers I needed for my company's annual income. While I might have a wad of cash in my hand from not having to pay 10 employees, I am without 15 customers. That wad of cash might see me through for a short while, but it will be gone too unless I do something with it and my pal next door does something with his wad to put more people back to work. Hiring a relative few people to build a new mansion for myself does not make up the balance of greater number of people who aren't building anything because I and others have laid them off, fired them or are paying them less.

Obama is not going to hurt the economy, ignorance and stupidity will, just like it crashed it in 2008.
 
That's a simple fact of economics, Knot, that many seem completely unaware of. You HAVE to have a workforce that receives a decent wage in order to have a market to buy your product. The wealthiest among us, hoarding their money or gambling on Wall Street, is not sufficient a market for creating a thriving economy. Eventually that will trickle down to the rest of the population, and that is when they'll begin to realize that the rightwing program of stifling the middle class is an idiotic scenario.
 
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