Philosophical Differences

[trapdoor]

Hey, tobacco...do YOU know any businessses that don't require workers???

I know a man who runs a solo business making replicas of 18th century rifles. He is his only employee -- most people would say his business requires no workers.

 

[trapdoor]

So...you then would prefer private roads? Built by business for their purposes only? Can you point to a model for your non governmental roads concept?

Most of the first America railroads were completely private endeavors. It wasn't a government financed operation until there was a desire for a transcontinental railroad.

 

[imreallyperplexed]

What about the Nazi right that Romney and Ryan represent? You say that there is not a dimes worth of difference between the two.

As to the "devoutness" of the Founding Fathers, I hope that you do not equate "devoutness" with "fundamentalism." There are plenty of folks who are devout Christians (or devout adherants of other faiths) who are not fundamentalists. Thomas Jefferson is an example of a founder who was most definitely not a fundamentalist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_and_religion

Now, as far as I know, none of the Founding Fathers was an atheist. There were also - as far as I know - no Catholic Founding Fathers. There were certainly no Jewish Founding Fathers. And there were no African-American Founding Fathers. And there were no Founding Mothers. But though I suspect that there were some fundamentalist Founding Fathers, there

While there may not be a exact quote from the founders, "One Nation Under God" there is no denying our founders were fundamentalist Christians. But many were not. (Benjamin Franklin is an example of another non-fundamentalist Founding Father. http://www.questioningchristian.com/2004/11/benjamin_frankl.html ).

I'm sure our One Nation, Under Global Banker Occupation.. Is much more preferable than being under a Christian god. At least to the NAZI left.

 

[worldlymrb]

I know a man who runs a solo business making replicas of 18th century rifles. He is his only employee -- most people would say his business requires no workers.

There are millions who are independent businessmen who run their business by themselves. Webmaster, consultants, etc..

But to the NAZI left, Without a offshore banker run govt in D.C, We the People, cannot exist.

 

[worldlymrb]

What about the Nazi right that Romney and Ryan represent? You say that there is not a dimes worth of difference between the two.

As to the "devoutness" of the Founding Fathers, I hope that you do not equate "devoutness" with "fundamentalism." There are plenty of folks who are devout Christians (or devout adherants of other faiths) who are not fundamentalists. Thomas Jefferson is an example of a founder who was most definitely not a fundamentalist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_and_religion

Now, as far as I know, none of the Founding Fathers was an atheist. There were also - as far as I know - no Catholic Founding Fathers. There were certainly no Jewish Founding Fathers. And there were no African-American Founding Fathers. And there were no Founding Mothers. But though I suspect that there were some fundamentalist Founding Fathers, there

I have said it before and I will say it again.....The only choice Americans have is between a blue condom and a red condom because the nation will be screwed by the same d-i-c-k regardless of who wins.

Politics is now a waste of time in America and has only served to bankrupt a great nation with a proud heritage.

 

[Craig]

There are millions who are independent businessmen who run their business by themselves. Webmaster, consultants, etc..

But to the NAZI left, Without a offshore banker run govt in D.C, We the People, cannot exist.

A "Webmaster" may be a sole employee...but they make substantial use of the internet.

Do I need to elaborate on what that means?

 

[Craig]

Most of the first America railroads were completely private endeavors. It wasn't a government financed operation until there was a desire for a transcontinental railroad.

The Baltimore and Ohio was subsidized by the City of Baltimore and the State of Maryland...to aid commerce from its port.

An Act to Incorporate the Baltimore and Ohio Rail Road Company.	Passed Feb 28, 1827
1. Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Maryland, That Isaac M'Kim, Thomas Ellicott, Joseph W. Patterson, John M'Kim, junior, William Stewart, Talbot Jones, Roswell L. Colt, George Brown, and Evan Thomas, be and they are hereby appointed commissioners, under the direction of a majority of whom subscriptions may be received to the capital stock of the Baltimore and Ohio Rail Road Company, hereby incorporated; and they, or a majority of them, may cause books to be opened at such times and places as they may direct, for the purpose of receiving subscriptions to the capital stock of said company after having given such notice of the times and places of opening the same as they may deem proper; and that upon the first opening of said books, they shall be kept open for at least ten successive days, from ten o'clock A. M. until two o'clock P. M. and if at the expiration of that period such subscription to the capital stock of said company, as is necessary to its incorporation, shall not have been obtained, the said commissioners, or a majority of them, may cause the said books to be opened, from time to time, after the expiration of the said ten days, for the space of twelve months thereafter, or until the sum necessary to the incorporation of the company shall be subscribed, if sooner subscribed; and if any of the said commissioners shall die, resign, or refuse to act, during the continuance of the duties devolved upon them by this act, another may be appointed in his stead by the remaining commissioners, or a majority of them.	Commissioners to open books for subscriptions
2. And be it enacted, That the capital stock of the said Baltimore and Ohio Rail Road Company, shall be three millions of dollars, in shares of one hundred dollars each, of which ten thousand shares shall be reserved for subscription by the state of Maryland, and five thousand for the city of Baltimore, for the space of twelve months after the passage of this act by the legislature of Maryland, and the remaining fifteen thousand shares may be subscribed for by any other corporation or by individuals; and that as soon as ten thousand shares of the said capital stock shall be subscribed, the subscribers of the said stock, their successors and assigns, shall be, and they are hereby declared to be, incorporated into a company, by the name of The Baltimore and Ohio Rail Road Company, and by that name shall be capable in law of purchasing, holding, selling, leasing and conveying, estates real, personal and mixed, so far as shall be necessary for the purposes hereinafter mentioned, and no further; and shall have perpetual succession, and by said corporate name may sue and be sued, and may have and use a common seal, which they shall have power to alter or renew at their pleasure, and shall have, enjoy and may exercise, all the powers, rights and privileges, which other corporate bodies may lawfully do, for the purposes mentioned in this act.	Capital stock—-subscribers incorporated
3. And be it enacted, That if more than fifteen thousand shares shall be subscribed to the capital stock of said company, not reserved to the state of Maryland, or to the city of Baltimore, the said commissioners, or a majority of them, shall reduce the subscription to fifteen thousand shares, by striking off from the largest number of shares in succession, until the subscriptions are reduced to fifteen thousand shares, or all the subscriptions to one share; and if there be still an excess, then lots shall be drawn by the commissioners to determine who are to be excluded.	If more than 15,000 shares subscribed, how to be reduced
4. And be it enacted, That upon every such subscription, there shall be paid at the time of subscribing to the said commissioners, or to their agents, appointed to receive such subscriptions, the sum of one dollar on every share subscribed, and the residue thereof shall be paid in such instalments, and at such times, as it may be required by the president and directors of said company;	Payments, how to be made
Provided, that not more than one third of the subscription be demanded in any one year from the commencement of the work, nor any payment demanded until at least sixty days public notice of such demand shall have been given by the said president and directors; and if any subscriber shall fail or neglect to pay any instalment, or part of said subscription, thus demanded, for the space of sixty days next after the time the same shall be due and payable, the stock, on which it is demanded, shall be forfeited to the company, and may be sold by the said president and directors for the benefit of the company; but the president and directors may remit any such forfeiture on such terms as they shall deem proper.	Proviso
5. And be it enacted, That if the subscription herein made necessary to the incorporation of the said company, shall not be obtained within twelve months after the first opening of the subscription books by the said commissioners, this act, and all the subscriptions under it, shall be null and void; and the said commissioners, after discharging the expenses of opening the books, shall return the residue of the money, paid in upon such subscriptions, to the several subscribers, in proper proportions to the sums respectively paid in by them.	If necessary subscription is not obtained in 12 months, act to be void
6. And be it enacted, That at the expiration of the ten days for which the books are first opened, if ten thousand shares of said capital stock shall have been subscribed, or if not, as soon thereafter as the same shall be subscribed, if within one year after the first opening of the books, the said commissioners, or a majority of them, shall call a general meeting of the subscribers, at such time and place as they may appoint, and shall give at least twenty days public notice thereof; and at such meeting the said commissioners shall lay the subscription books before the subscribers then and there present, and thereupon the said subscribers, or a majority of them, shall elect twelve directors, by ballot, to manage the affairs of said company; and these twelve directors, or a majority of them, shall have the power of electing a president of said company, either from among the directors, or others, and of allowing him such compensation for his services as they may deem proper; and that in said election, and on all other occasions wherein a vote of the stockholders of said company is to be taken, each stockholder shall be allowed one vote for every share owned by it, him or her, and every stockholder may depute any other person to vote and act for it, him or her, as its, his or her proxy, and the commissioners aforesaid, or any three or more of them, shall be judges of the said first election of directors.	General meeting—-Directors
7. And be it enacted, That to continue the succession of the president and directors of said company, twelve directors shall be chosen annually, on the second Monday of October in every year, in the city of Baltimore, by the stockholders of said company, and that the state of Maryland, and the city of Baltimore, may each appoint one additional director of said company for every twenty -five hundred shares of stock of said company by them respectively owned at the time of such election, but shall not be permitted to vote upon their stock in the election of the directors by the stockholders, in general meeting; and that the directors of said company, or a majority of them, shall have power to appoint judges of all elections, and to elect a president of said company, either from amongst the directors, or others, and to allow him such compensation for his services as they may deem proper; and if any vacancy shall occur by death, resignation, or refusal to act, of any president or director, before the year for which he was elected has expired, a person to fill such vacant place, for the residue of the year, may be appointed by the president and directors of said company, or a majority of them; and that the president and directors of the company shall hold and exercise their offices until a new election of president and directors; and that all elections which are by this act, or the by-laws of said company, to be made on a particular day, or at a particular time, if not made on such day, or at such time, may be made at any time within thirty days thereafter.	Directors to be chosen annually——Vacancies
8. And be it enacted. That a general meeting of the stockholders of said company shall be held annually, at the time and place appointed for the election of the president and directors of said company; that they may be called at any time during the interval between said annual meetings by the president and directors, or a majority of them, or by the stockholders owning at least one fourth of the whole stock subscribed, upon giving thirty days public notice of the time and place of holding the same; and when any such meetings are called by the stockholders, such notice shall specify the particular object of the call; and if at any such called meetings a majority (in value) of the stockholders of said company are not present, in person or by proxy, such meetings shall be adjourned from day to day, without transacting any business, for any time not exceeding three days, and if within said three days, stockholders having a majority (in value) of the stock subscribed do not thus attend, such meeting shall be dissolved.

 

[GordonGecko]

There are millions who are independent businessmen who run their business by themselves. Webmaster, consultants, etc..

But to the NAZI left, Without a offshore banker run govt in D.C, We the People, cannot exist.

"Millions", huh? How many millions? Oh, and please offer your data to prove it.

 

[worldlymrb]

A "Webmaster" may be a sole employee...but they make substantial use of the internet.

Do I need to elaborate on what that means?

So what. Govt own and operate the internet yet?

And yes, the military may have first invented the internet so they could communicate more efficeintly, but would that invention had been possible without govt first confiscating the funds needed from the public? Hmmmm?

Fact Govt has not built ANYTHING w/o first confiscating funds from the private collective.

 

[GordonGecko]

A "Webmaster" may be a sole employee...but they make substantial use of the internet.

Do I need to elaborate on what that means?

The Webmaster built the Internet with his own bare hands.....oh, and lots of help from DARPA.

 

[imreallyperplexed]

Most of the first America railroads were completely private endeavors. It wasn't a government financed operation until there was a desire for a transcontinental railroad.

Can you provide some evidence for your claim? I suspect that you are overstating things. First, though it may be that the Federal government was not involved in the earliest efforts, I would be amazed if the individual states had no role. State government is still government. This is particularly true vis a vis laying track that is used by everyone. It is the same for canals, for roads, and for airports.

Now, it is true that governments - at least in the United States - do not run railroads (anymore than governments run taxi companies or airlines), they are largely responsible for building and maintaining the infrastructure and always have been.

 

[imreallyperplexed]

Then why not just savage both candidates? If you think that they are both Nazis and socialist control freaks, you shouldn't appear to give support to either side. But you seem OK with having Romney and Ryan stick their red condom up your behind. It seems to me that you would be happier in a third party.

I have said it before and I will say it again.....The only choice Americans have is between a blue condom and a red condom because the nation will be screwed by the same d-i-c-k regardless of who wins.

Politics is now a waste of time in America and has only served to bankrupt a great nation with a proud heritage.

 

[Craig]

So what. Govt own and operate the internet yet?

And yes, the military may have first invented the internet so they could communicate more efficeintly, but would that invention had been possible without govt first confiscating the funds needed from the public? Hmmmm?

Government is used to do what individuals cannot do. So...your taxes...as per our great system...go to the benefit of all. A military application that becomes a business opportunity is nothing new, the US has used these private/public partnerships for a long long time. Do you use non scratch glass lenses? Memory foam? NASA thanks you.

As in the bridge examples...as in the B&O Railroad example...these are accomplished with the blessing and help and the incorporation (another group endeavor designed to accomplish what individuals cannot) and the selling of stocks and/or bonds to finance these commerce aiding enhancements to our society.

I don't worry about the word confiscation. You use it to inflame. You have representation...you pay taxes for the privilege of living in our society. Sorry it upset you so.

 

[imreallyperplexed]

Do you want to get rid of defense spending? Just curious. (It would be a logical conclusion from what you wrote.)

So what. Govt own and operate the internet yet?

And yes, the military may have first invented the internet so they could communicate more efficeintly, but would that invention had been possible without govt first confiscating the funds needed from the public? Hmmmm?

Fact Govt has not built ANYTHING w/o first confiscating funds from the private collective.

 

[worldlymrb]

n 1867, a group of prominent leaders formed the New York Bridge Company "for the purpose of constructing and maintaining a bridge across the East River." Under the enabling act, the city of Brooklyn (which stood to benefit the most from the bridge) subscribed for $3 million of the capital stock, while the city of New York only subscribed for $1.5 million. The company was permitted to fix toll rates for pedestrians and all types of vehicles, receiving a profit of no more than 15 percent per year.

City acquired the funds through BONDS sold to PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS, which was to be paid back with TOLLS.

BTW: I'm all for city/states building roads. But I'm not going to bow down and worship the federal govt for pretending to build roads, as if that is some kind of miraculous feet.

Seems you're incorrect regarding the Brooklyn Bridge as well...

Brooklyn Bridge Timeline		Contemporary Events
1866:
New York state legislature passes legislation for construction of New York-Brooklyn Bridge		Treaty of Vienna ends Austro-Italian War; Fyodor Dostoevsky, "Crime and Punishment"; Alfred Nobel invents dynamite.
1867:
New York Bridge Company incorporated; John Roebling presents design for 1,600-foot bridge across East River; Roebling appointed engineer.		Russia sells Alaska to United States; Karl Marx, "Das Kapital, Part I"; Johann Strauss composes "The Blue Danube"; chemist Marie Curie born.
1868-1869:
Common Council appropriates $1.5 million for construction costs; As site surveys near completion, Roebling injured in freak accident, dies of tetanus 17 days later; son Washington Roebling becomes project engineer; President Grant signs bill approving bridge plan.		U.S. President Andrew Johnson impeached, acquitted by Senate; Ulysses S. Grant wins presidential election; Suez Canal opens; Mark Twain, "The Innocents Abroad"; Frank Lloyd Wright born; First Vatican Council advocates definition of papal infallibility.

http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/brooklynbridge/timeline/

 

[Craig]

n 1867, a group of prominent leaders formed the New York Bridge Company "for the purpose of constructing and maintaining a bridge across the East River." Under the enabling act, the city of Brooklyn (which stood to benefit the most from the bridge) subscribed for $3 million of the capital stock, while the city of New York only subscribed for $1.5 million. The company was permitted to fix toll rates for pedestrians and all types of vehicles, receiving a profit of no more than 15 percent per year.

City acquired the funds through BONDS sold to PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS, which was to be paid back with TOLLS.

BTW: I'm all for city/states building roads. But I'm not going to bow down and worship the federal govt for pretending to build roads, as if that is some kind of miraculous feet.

Yes...the Cities....sold bonds. It therefore...was not...a private concern. Bridge building still requires land...marine considerations...Sorry...no. John Roebling did not build the bridge with private funds. The city incorporated a public/private partnership and floated bonds...

It's just reality.

Feat.

 

[worldlymrb]

Government is used to do what individuals cannot do. So...your taxes...as per our great system...go to the benefit of all. A military application that becomes a business opportunity is nothing new, the US has used these private/public partnerships for a long long time. Do you use non scratch glass lenses? Memory foam? NASA thanks you.

As in the bridge examples...as in the B&O Railroad example...these are accomplished with the blessing and help and the incorporation (another group endeavor designed to accomplish what individuals cannot) and the selling of stocks and/or bonds to finance these commerce aiding enhancements to our society.

I don't worry about the word confiscation. You use it to inflame. You have representation...you pay taxes for the privilege of living in our society. Sorry it upset you so.

I am sorry if the word confiscation offends you, but facts are facts. And if the global banker owned federal govt was spending (er..investing), 98% of it's confiscated revenue w/o financing from Goldman Sachs/FRB, on roads/bridges, I WOULD BE A-OK-WITH IT!

 

[Craig]

I am sorry if the word confiscation offends you, but facts are facts. And if the global banker owned federal govt was spending (er..investing), 98% of it's confiscated revenue w/o financing from Goldman Sachs/FRB, on roads/bridges, I WOULD BE A-OK-WITH IT!

It doesn't offend me in the slightest. I know why you use it. I think it's idiotic, but not offensive.

So...what is it you want? You despise the "global fascist bankers"...and hate both the Republicans and the Democrats. What is it you want? What do you hope to accomplish by screeching about the global fascists in your every post?

 

[GordonGecko]

You despise the "global fascist bankers"...and hate both the Republicans and the Democrats.

Yet worldly LEAPS to defend Mitt Romney here at PJ.

 

[worldlymrb]

Yes...the Cities....sold bonds. It therefore...was not...a private concern. Bridge building still requires land...marine considerations...Sorry...no. John Roebling did not build the bridge with private funds. The city incorporated a public/private partnership and floated bonds...

It's just reality.

Feat.

NO>

A group of prominent leaders formed the New York Bridge Company

TRANSLATION: local govt officials and a select group of private individuals, formed a private CORPORATION,and profited handsomely (aka crony capitalism).