New Posts
  • Hi there guest! Welcome to PoliticalJack.com. Register for free to join our community?

SYG

Minotaur

Governor
In regard to the many stories since the jury decided the Zimmerman case, I wonder if everyone understands that SYG language was in the jury instructions as it is important. It was located under Manslaughter and it does cancel out manslaughter in that it forces the jury to only look at the fight. Manslaughter takes your actions pre-fight into account. We may as well remove manslaughter from choices to jury in murder cases as it can't be used in Florida. It is what it is but in the middle of all this I worry for all of us who do not carry guns. What do we do? What is left for innocent people walking to the store or going about any ordinary task and having the misfortune of someone thinking we look suspicious, or we are rude to take a parking space, or they just don't like our expression or skin color? What is the difference between a pedophile chasing our children and a strange man chasing our children in the night? What can you do when you are innocent and yet can't protect yourself from a man with a gun because if we do try to save our life we can be legally killed.

I think the bottom line is that guns enable people to push things until someone ends up dead rather than using common sense and try to avoid trouble. Trayvon's death should have shown us all that we are all in danger and we have lost our right to feel safe in our own communities because we just don't know who is packing and what his intentions are when he is displeased about something a normal person going about their daily tasks did, or looks like he did, or looks like he may do. But it is as legal to kill you or your children or grandchildren as it was to kill Trayvon. This SYG law is absolutely fearful and it allows the irresponsible behavior so an adult can confront the criminals living in their own minds and apply it to an innocent child walking home from a neighborhood store. Adults are suppose to be adults but I no longer know what that means now that we have armed people causing incidents as they act out and a kid ends up dead and our courts can't even save future children because to fight back when someone is chasing them is to be responsible. But if a stranger follows our children we tell them to run. We tell our children to fight back. We tell our children to NEVER go with a stranger. Trayvon is the exception because that child being followed by a stranger had no right to defend himself. He only had the legal right to be killed.

We can do better than this. Change that horrific law so everyone feels a little safer and not just armed men scrambling around at night inventing bad guys and acting out a Cowboy nightmare.
 
i generally agree with you, and you're not covering any new ground.

zimmerman should have been found guilty of manslaughter for leaving his vehicle in violation of police instructions and shooting someone.

that said, your further point that "we are all in danger" is farcical. if you try to smash some strangers head into the pavement because he's interrogating you about your presence in a gated community - you should expect maybe he'll fight back or produce a weapon if he's armed. that doesn't place "all of us" in danger. just those predisposed to raise their fists in every dispute because they are young and high on drugs and testosterone.

thousands and thousands of people are shot in the inner city every year, over drugs, petty arguments, mistaken identity, revenge killings etc. THOSE people are all in danger, and it has nothing to do with the zimmerman thing, which is clearly a one-off.
 
In regard to the many stories since the jury decided the Zimmerman case, I wonder if everyone understands that SYG language was in the jury instructions as it is important. It was located under Manslaughter and it does cancel out manslaughter in that it forces the jury to only look at the fight. Manslaughter takes your actions pre-fight into account. We may as well remove manslaughter from choices to jury in murder cases as it can't be used in Florida. It is what it is but in the middle of all this I worry for all of us who do not carry guns. What do we do? What is left for innocent people walking to the store or going about any ordinary task and having the misfortune of someone thinking we look suspicious, or we are rude to take a parking space, or they just don't like our expression or skin color? What is the difference between a pedophile chasing our children and a strange man chasing our children in the night? What can you do when you are innocent and yet can't protect yourself from a man with a gun because if we do try to save our life we can be legally killed.

I think the bottom line is that guns enable people to push things until someone ends up dead rather than using common sense and try to avoid trouble. Trayvon's death should have shown us all that we are all in danger and we have lost our right to feel safe in our own communities because we just don't know who is packing and what his intentions are when he is displeased about something a normal person going about their daily tasks did, or looks like he did, or looks like he may do. But it is as legal to kill you or your children or grandchildren as it was to kill Trayvon. This SYG law is absolutely fearful and it allows the irresponsible behavior so an adult can confront the criminals living in their own minds and apply it to an innocent child walking home from a neighborhood store. Adults are suppose to be adults but I no longer know what that means now that we have armed people causing incidents as they act out and a kid ends up dead and our courts can't even save future children because to fight back when someone is chasing them is to be responsible. But if a stranger follows our children we tell them to run. We tell our children to fight back. We tell our children to NEVER go with a stranger. Trayvon is the exception because that child being followed by a stranger had no right to defend himself. He only had the legal right to be killed.

We can do better than this. Change that horrific law so everyone feels a little safer and not just armed men scrambling around at night inventing bad guys and acting out a Cowboy nightmare.

Oh bullshit.... :rolleyes:
 
Oh bullshit.... :rolleyes:

Try living with that reality SYG has created and then get back to me. I would have no issue with it if those with guns wore labels and could only kill each other. As it stands being armed in a city filled with normal unarmed people is about as clever as hunting moose from a helicopter or fishing with dynamite.

Push too far and people fight back.
 
Try living with that reality SYG has created and then get back to me. I would have no issue with it if those with guns wore labels and could only kill each other. As it stands being armed in a city filled with normal unarmed people is about as clever as hunting moose from a helicopter or fishing with dynamite.

Push too far and people fight back.

Where do you think I live? I see at least one person everyday carrying concealed weapons where I live, and while we do have a fair amount of crime nobody's taken a shot at me since the last time I deployed. Don't start shit with people and your odds of getting shot go way down..... but that necessitates personal responsibility for one's own actions.
 
Where do you think I live? I see at least one person everyday carrying concealed weapons where I live, and while we do have a fair amount of crime nobody's taken a shot at me since the last time I deployed. Don't start shit with people and your odds of getting shot go way down..... but that necessitates personal responsibility for one's own actions.

"Don't start shit with people and your odds of getting shot go way down" does it? The ones with the guns start the shit and end up killing kids. Be real. Do you have any idea how many innocent people die because of these dingbats? The teacher in Florida whose neighbor filmed himself playing the SYG game before killing the teacher, Trayvon whose crime was walking to the store around one of these empowered dingbats, the 13 year old kid who was just bringing in the garbage can, killed by one of the dingbats. You people armed in public places are a menace and down right dangerous to kids so don't give me that crap. If you carry, you are one of them. I hope you don't kill anyone along the way because most of us are unarmed and opting not to be a menace society. Your problem is you think everyone packing is you.
 
"Don't start shit with people and your odds of getting shot go way down" does it? The ones with the guns start the shit and end up killing kids. Be real. Do you have any idea how many innocent people die because of these dingbats? The teacher in Florida whose neighbor filmed himself playing the SYG game before killing the teacher, Trayvon whose crime was walking to the store around one of these empowered dingbats, the 13 year old kid who was just bringing in the garbage can, killed by one of the dingbats. You people armed in public places are a menace and down right dangerous to kids so don't give me that crap. If you carry, you are one of them. I hope you don't kill anyone along the way because most of us are unarmed and opting not to be a menace society. Your problem is you think everyone packing is you.

More bullshit....
 
More bullshit....
If it were bullshit none of you would be so scared that you have to strap a hidden gun on to empower before chasing and confronting and killing kids and unarmed people. What kind of mentality even thinks that way?

That is the bullshit.
 
If it were bullshit none of you would be so scared that you have to strap a hidden gun on to empower before chasing and confronting and killing kids and unarmed people. What kind of mentality even thinks that way?

That is the bullshit.

Anyone who takes responsibility for their own safety is "scared", anyone who isn't afraid to call spade a spade is a racist, etc., etc...... it's all bullshit.
 
Where do you think I live? I see at least one person everyday carrying concealed weapons where I live, and while we do have a fair amount of crime nobody's taken a shot at me since the last time I deployed. Don't start shit with people and your odds of getting shot go way down..... but that necessitates personal responsibility for one's own actions.

Don't delude yourself as to why no one's messed with you Freyesman. When we go on mission to Honduras, since I'm non-medical, I'm tasked with maintaining order. And, let's just say that 700 mountain villagers waiting to see the doctor and get our various handouts, can get a little pushy. But, I rarely have the least bit of trouble with them. And, I'm not the drill sargeant "bark orders" type. Last trip out, I mentioned that to the young cop who accompanied us. I noted that I'm as sweet and welcoming as a pea (I really AM), but the people follow my lead as if I'm covered with badges and armed for bear. So...what gives? Then......he reminded me that at 6 feet / 180, I'm considerably bigger than the average Honduran.

Long ramble shorter, I've never had any trouble ANYwhere I've lived or visited and I've never packed heat. But, it would be a little self-righteous of me to suggest that everyone else can necessarily do as I do.
 
Anyone who takes responsibility for their own safety is "scared", anyone who isn't afraid to call spade a spade is a racist, etc., etc...... it's all bullshit.

Killing kids is bullshit. I agree people have to take responsibility for their own safety and I plan on doing that. The safest thing we can do in Florida is get rid of the SYG law where these dingbats who kill get less punishment than someone who shoots and kills a frigging wall.
 
"Do you have any idea how many innocent people die because of these dingbats?"
Why don't you tell me? And then we can compare it to the number of people who die at the hands of underage, recidivist criminals, or, as I call them "savage little bastards"....
 
Don't delude yourself as to why no one's messed with you Freyesman. When we go on mission to Honduras, since I'm non-medical, I'm tasked with maintaining order. And, let's just say that 700 mountain villagers waiting to see the doctor and get our various handouts, can get a little pushy. But, I rarely have the least bit of trouble with them. And, I'm not the drill sargeant "bark orders" type. Last trip out, I mentioned that to the young cop who accompanied us. I noted that I'm as sweet and welcoming as a pea (I really AM), but the people follow my lead as if I'm covered with badges and armed for bear. So...what gives? Then......he reminded me that at 6 feet / 180, I'm considerably bigger than the average Honduran.

Long ramble shorter, I've never had any trouble ANYwhere I've lived or visited and I've never packed heat. But, it would be a little self-righteous of me to suggest that everyone else can necessarily do as I do.

Add in for information only that it is not the carry/conceal law that is being focused on in my toppost, just the SYG which adds the element of now being able to kill no matter what you did to cause the fight or skirmish. That is some scary stuff because here in Florida not only are they empowered but they have a GREAT excuse for killing. Normal people don't have a chance.

Texas - he is talking to 911 as he walks over to kill his neighbor during the teacher's 2 year old daughter's birthday party. This neighbor is trying to set up SYG even before he arrives to confront the party:
 
Don't delude yourself as to why no one's messed with you Freyesman. When we go on mission to Honduras, since I'm non-medical, I'm tasked with maintaining order. And, let's just say that 700 mountain villagers waiting to see the doctor and get our various handouts, can get a little pushy. But, I rarely have the least bit of trouble with them. And, I'm not the drill sargeant "bark orders" type. Last trip out, I mentioned that to the young cop who accompanied us. I noted that I'm as sweet and welcoming as a pea (I really AM), but the people follow my lead as if I'm covered with badges and armed for bear. So...what gives? Then......he reminded me that at 6 feet / 180, I'm considerably bigger than the average Honduran.

Long ramble shorter, I've never had any trouble ANYwhere I've lived or visited and I've never packed heat. But, it would be a little self-righteous of me to suggest that everyone else can necessarily do as I do.

I know exactly why I don't get messed with; 1. I don't drink. Stay away from bars, nightclubs, and parties where people are drinking, and you'll be amazed at how little grief you get. 2. Show respect to all, but fear to no one.... 3. I just happen to look meaner than shit; it's not on purpose, it's just my default facial expression.... I've worked hard to change that so as to not scare folks. But it comes in handy..... jackal's don't [Unwelcome language removed] with lions. The gun on my hip doesn't have anything to do with it, because no one knows I have it.
 
Add in for information only that it is not the carry/conceal law that is being focused on in my toppost, just the SYG which adds the element of now being able to kill no matter what you did to cause the fight or skirmish. That is some scary stuff because here in Florida not only are they empowered but they have a GREAT excuse for killing. Normal people don't have a chance.

Texas - he is talking to 911 as he walks over to kill his neighbor during the teacher's 2 year old daughter's birthday party. This neighbor is trying to set up SYG even before he arrives to confront the party:
Me and Zziggy were talking about this guy a couple of days ago; he was sentenced to 40yrs. If SYG laws make it so easy to kill people and go free, then why is he going to jail?
 
Killing kids is bullshit. I agree people have to take responsibility for their own safety and I plan on doing that. The safest thing we can do in Florida is get rid of the SYG law where these dingbats who kill get less punishment than someone who shoots and kills a frigging wall.

The trouble is, you seem to believe that these two or three things you describe have led to widespread massacres of the unarmed -- something that simply isn't borne out by the data. Violent crime has not increased, it has fallen, as have the number of people shot, both in murders and justifiable homicides.

The simple fact of the matter is that you have the fear you accuse self-defense advocates of having. You're afraid, apparently, both of armed people and the weapons they use. As that fear is not borne out by the statistics, it is an irrational fear, or phobia.
 
Me and Zziggy were talking about this guy a couple of days ago; he was sentenced to 40yrs. If SYG laws make it so easy to kill people and go free, then why is he going to jail?

As you listen to the video you'll note that he is recording it and acting out his SYG defense. That part is not in question. He shot that first shot as someone moved toward him injuring him. He then aimed at the teacher whose arms were in the air and he killed him. He shot another man and injured him.

His only mistake was his own video of what happened. You have to recognize that these are the kinds of people that SYG empowers. That his video showed plain old murder is indicative of the entire situation. Those are the questions we are all left to decide when these case show up and these dingbats jump to SYG instantly. Most people killed don't have witnesses or video. I'd like you to consider what this play acting he did really means because it is not very often that you get to see what really happened in a one on one murder.
 
Add in for information only that it is not the carry/conceal law that is being focused on in my toppost, just the SYG which adds the element of now being able to kill no matter what you did to cause the fight or skirmish. That is some scary stuff because here in Florida not only are they empowered but they have a GREAT excuse for killing. Normal people don't have a chance.

Texas - he is talking to 911 as he walks over to kill his neighbor during the teacher's 2 year old daughter's birthday party. This neighbor is trying to set up SYG even before he arrives to confront the party:

And, like I said earlier, your whole top post is bullshit....
 
As you listen to the video you'll note that he is recording it and acting out his SYG defense. That part is not in question. He shot that first shot as someone moved toward him injuring him. He then aimed at the teacher whose arms were in the air and he killed him. He shot another man and injured him.

His only mistake was his own video of what happened. You have to recognize that these are the kinds of people that SYG empowers. That his video showed plain old murder is indicative of the entire situation. Those are the questions we are all left to decide when these case show up and these dingbats jump to SYG instantly. Most people killed don't have witnesses or video. I'd like you to consider what this play acting he did really means because it is not very often that you get to see what really happened in a one on one murder.

"His only mistake was his own video of what happened"? If you believe that, you don't know dick about self-defense law....
 
The trouble is, you seem to believe that these two or three things you describe have led to widespread massacres of the unarmed -- something that simply isn't borne out by the data. Violent crime has not increased, it has fallen, as have the number of people shot, both in murders and justifiable homicides.

The simple fact of the matter is that you have the fear you accuse self-defense advocates of having. You're afraid, apparently, both of armed people and the weapons they use. As that fear is not borne out by the statistics, it is an irrational fear, or phobia.

This is the simple fact of SYG and there is no way in some cases to establish who did what when a killing took place:

http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases

"One hundred thirty-three people in the state of Florida have used a 'Stand Your Ground' defense. Of these claims, 73 were considered 'justified' (55 percent), while 39 resulted in criminal convictions and 21 cases are still pending."
 
Back
Top