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The GOP collapse continues....

I'm not a Conservative, per se...I'm a Libertarian.

But I see your point....unless the GOP dumps the SOCIAL conservatives, and soon, they'll fall off the face of the Earth.

However, if they DO dump the Socialcons...they'll be...well...Democrats.

It's a quandary.
 
You make a good point there. CB.

Maybe it's time, not for a third party but for the Libertarians to be the strongest second party.

If that is to be the case, then I am not sure where I would stand. I am not a social conservative per se.... though I do believe it is morally wrong and should be legally wrong to kill a viable baby still in the womb. But I am not quite as Libertarian as (for example) Ron Paul and maybe Rand Paul.

What I would like to see is a political party that is not run by a bunch of liars and corrupt human beings. We're not likely to find that.

I'm not a Conservative, per se...I'm a Libertarian.

But I see your point....unless the GOP dumps the SOCIAL conservatives, and soon, they'll fall off the face of the Earth.

However, if they DO dump the Socialcons...they'll be...well...Democrats.

It's a quandary.
 
I dig where you're coming from Jen...but honestly..how can anyone pull the lever for a straight Republican ticket nowadays?

They claim to want smaller government, but they never give it to us. Hell, the Sequester was Nerobama's idea. They claim to be fiscally responsible but they continue to dump TONS of money into defense projects that go no where but into the pockets of their cronies in the defense industry (the F-22 is a great example).

They claim to hold personal freedom sacred, but they INVENTED the Patriot Act.

As I have said time and again, the GOP will rescue itself ONLY when they embrace a more Libertarian platform and shake the dead weight of the religious right off.
 
I can't vote straight ticket Republican and haven't been able to do that for a long time..... I couldn't even pull the lever for Bush. And I did so for McCain because I thought that Obama needed more time in government before he became President and I was right. Had Hillary been the Democratic candidate I would likely have chosen her over McCain...... not that I agreed with her on everything but because I would have thought she would do a better job than McCain.

I agree that the turn the GOP needs to take, and the people are there to do it.........is to embrace its Libertarian side and walk away from those who want us to have a theocracy. With the news that Michelle Bachman is not running for office again, maybe she's walking away from politics and will lead some others away. Or maybe not. But either the GOP needs to turn in a Libertarian direction or the Libertarians need to stand up as the GOP dies.

I dig where you're coming from Jen...but honestly..how can anyone pull the lever for a straight Republican ticket nowadays?

They claim to want smaller government, but they never give it to us. Hell, the Sequester was Nerobama's idea. They claim to be fiscally responsible but they continue to dump TONS of money into defense projects that go no where but into the pockets of their cronies in the defense industry (the F-22 is a great example).

They claim to hold personal freedom sacred, but they INVENTED the Patriot Act.

As I have said time and again, the GOP will rescue itself ONLY when they embrace a more Libertarian platform and shake the dead weight of the religious right off.
 
I shudder to think where America would be today if John McCain and Sarah Palin had been in charge of everything for the last four-and-a-half years. There would probably be no General Motors, and our boys (and girls) would probably be dying in Iran. And maybe in North Korea. And Syria. And Libya. And Pakistan. Unemployment would probably be over 12% and rising. The budget deficit would likely be even larger than it is today.
 
The problem is that libertarians have put up some wack jobs in the past and arent' taken seriously. And, we can't make that up with former republicans. We have GOT to get at the midddle of the road dems who don't want big government or taxes but are socially liberal and for those reasons tend to vote Dem.

connie
 
True.

But outreach begins at home, Connie. We have to pull the GOP into our camp FIRST. Maybe the self destruction will help in that effort.
 
I don't think that McCain would have led us to a better place than we are now but it would be stupid of me to speculate what would still be here and what would be gone. I do think that McCain would have appointed honest people with integrity that people in the Obama administration seem to lack. But that wouldn't necessarily have improved our economy. In reality, unemployment is around 12% now so looking at the ways an administration can skew the figures to make that number look better, I'm sure that McCain would have been able to do the same. Would a McCain administration have done that? I don't know.

I shudder to think where America would be today if John McCain and Sarah Palin had been in charge of everything for the last four-and-a-half years. There would probably be no General Motors, and our boys (and girls) would probably be dying in Iran. And maybe in North Korea. And Syria. And Libya. And Pakistan. Unemployment would probably be over 12% and rising. The budget deficit would likely be even larger than it is today.
 
Though I am a religious person, connie, I have to agree with you and CB here. Those holding government hostage to religious beliefs are condemning the GOP to irrelevancy.

Good point. The faster they dump the religious right, the better.

connie
 
I don't think that McCain would have led us to a better place than we are now but it would be stupid of me to speculate what would still be here and what would be gone. I do think that McCain would have appointed honest people with integrity that people in the Obama administration seem to lack. But that wouldn't necessarily have improved our economy. In reality, unemployment is around 12% now so looking at the ways an administration can skew the figures to make that number look better, I'm sure that McCain would have been able to do the same. Would a McCain administration have done that? I don't know.

The U3 unemployment rate---the official rate---is at 7.5%. You may be referring to the U6 rate, which some people call 'the TRUE unemployment rate'. In reality, unemployment is much more difficult to measure than some people realize.
 
...Chafee to change parties.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/...switch-parties-sources-say-91994.html?hp=t1_3

I didn't leave the GOP..they GOP left me..no, wait....

The GOP locomotive...next stop, irrelevance.

I sympathize with Republicans who leave the GOP these days, because the idea that the party left them is really accurate. The way the GOP was from the time of Eisenhower through the early 1990s, Lincoln Chaffee would fit in quite well with the old-style New England Republican, of which there were many. Just to name a few, you had Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, Bill Weld, Paul Celucci, William Cohen, Jim Jeffords, John Chaffee, and George H. W. Bush. That's in addition to a bunch of other moderate Northeastern Republicans of the Rudy Guiliani/Christine Whitman/Arlen Specter variety. But their ranks have been dramatically thinned in recent years. Susan Collins is still active and a Republican, but the others are either dead, retired from politics, or they've left the party.

The amazing thing is how openly hostile the GOP has been to many of these people -- as if actively trying to push them out of the party. Hell, even GHW Bush was called a RINO. Probably the most dramatic example of that hostility was when William Weld, Republican governor of Massachusetts, had his appointment to an ambassadorship filibustered by that horrid old racist Jesse Helms, effectively ending Weld's political career. Weld was smart, wildly charismatic, and had great poll numbers with centrists. He was basically a more likeable Mitt Romney, only with an actual track-record of success when he was governor. He could very well have been a Republican president, but his own party turned on him for his lack of ideological purity.

It'll be interesting to see if the GOP can hold its fire on Chris Christy. He's not a moderate, by any stretch of the imagination, but he's making nice with Obama, which is ruffling a lot of feathers. Will the Republican base be able to keep its fury leashed, or will they destroy or alienate yet another Northeastern Republican, furthering the process of transforming the GOP into a regional, neo-confederate party?
 
Will the Republican base be able to keep its fury leashed, or will they destroy or alienate yet another Northeastern Republican, furthering the process of transforming the GOP into a regional, neo-confederate party?

I think not. And I applaud it.

The sooner the GOP deteriorates the sooner Americans will have a real choice between Socialism-Lite and Liberty.
 
I'm not a Conservative, per se...I'm a Libertarian.

But I see your point....unless the GOP dumps the SOCIAL conservatives, and soon, they'll fall off the face of the Earth.

However, if they DO dump the Socialcons...they'll be...well...Democrats.

It's a quandary.

There certainly is room for the GOP to become a fundamentally libertarian party, since the Obama-era Democrats are leaving a ton of area to sit to their left on civil liberties issues. A party that was hostile to government intervention in the economy, but also opposed perpetual warfare, military over-spend, unbridled executive authority, an ever-expanding police state, etc., would be able to make a strong play for the younger generations, in particular. But, currently, the dynamic doesn't encourage the GOP to make that switch, by throwing the social conservatives and theocrats overboard. After all, the libertarians have made it clear that they'll vote Republican reliably, no matter how statist they might be, so long as they give lip-service to the idea of low taxes and small government. As long as those votes are seen as safely in the box, why would the Republicans risk losing out on their evangelical/puritanical/militaristic/xenophobic/racist base? They can take the libertarian votes for granted, so that's what they'll do.
 
There certainly is room for the GOP to become a fundamentally libertarian party, since the Obama-era Democrats are leaving a ton of area to sit to their left on civil liberties issues. A party that was hostile to government intervention in the economy, but also opposed perpetual warfare, military over-spend, unbridled executive authority, an ever-expanding police state, etc., would be able to make a strong play for the younger generations, in particular. But, currently, the dynamic doesn't encourage the GOP to make that switch, by throwing the social conservatives and theocrats overboard. After all, the libertarians have made it clear that they'll vote Republican reliably, no matter how statist they might be, so long as they give lip-service to the idea of low taxes and small government. As long as those votes are seen as safely in the box, why would the Republicans risk losing out on their evangelical/puritanical/militaristic/xenophobic/racist base? They can take the libertarian votes for granted, so that's what they'll do.

Thanks.
 
I think not. And I applaud it.

The sooner the GOP deteriorates the sooner Americans will have a real choice between Socialism-Lite and Liberty.

I sure as hell wouldn't phrase it that way, but I basically share your vision. I'd welcome a libertarian-style GOP to counterbalance the nanny-state excesses of the Democratic Party (just as I'd welcome the Democratic Party as a counterbalance to unrealistic libertarian expectations of the free market). I think the Democrats and the libertarians both have something very valuable to offer the country.... which just isn't something I can say of the currently-constituted GOP. I have some libertarian leanings, though I'm mostly a plain old liberal. Regardless, I think the Democratic Party could really use some opposition by PRINCIPLED libertarians.
 
I sympathize with Republicans who leave the GOP these days, because the idea that the party left them is really accurate. The way the GOP was from the time of Eisenhower through the early 1990s, Lincoln Chaffee would fit in quite well with the old-style New England Republican, of which there were many. Just to name a few, you had Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, Bill Weld, Paul Celucci, William Cohen, Jim Jeffords, John Chaffee, and George H. W. Bush. That's in addition to a bunch of other moderate Northeastern Republicans of the Rudy Guiliani/Christine Whitman/Arlen Specter variety. But their ranks have been dramatically thinned in recent years. Susan Collins is still active and a Republican, but the others are either dead, retired from politics, or they've left the party.

The amazing thing is how openly hostile the GOP has been to many of these people -- as if actively trying to push them out of the party. Hell, even GHW Bush was called a RINO. Probably the most dramatic example of that hostility was when William Weld, Republican governor of Massachusetts, had his appointment to an ambassadorship filibustered by that horrid old racist Jesse Helms, effectively ending Weld's political career. Weld was smart, wildly charismatic, and had great poll numbers with centrists. He was basically a more likeable Mitt Romney, only with an actual track-record of success when he was governor. He could very well have been a Republican president, but his own party turned on him for his lack of ideological purity.

It'll be interesting to see if the GOP can hold its fire on Chris Christy. He's not a moderate, by any stretch of the imagination, but he's making nice with Obama, which is ruffling a lot of feathers. Will the Republican base be able to keep its fury leashed, or will they destroy or alienate yet another Northeastern Republican, furthering the process of transforming the GOP into a regional, neo-confederate party?

What is happening in the Republican Party today is best likened to a good, old-fashioned, Stalinist PURGE.
 
I prefer voting Independent not libertarian but we are currently corrupted by republicans sneaking into the Independent party. Come to think of it the Libertarians have the same issue my party has. The republicans are corrupting everything. LOL

I'd never vote 3rd party in the highest offices as that is like tossing my vote out but I do vote my party (Independent) in local elections when I can.
 
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