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The Last Days

JackDallas

Senator
Supporting Member
I left organized religion 15+ years ago when I realized I felt sort of filthy every Sunday when I left church. It's something I still can't (or maybe I can and don't want to) put my finger on, but I had to walk away..... to find God.
You were in the wrong church.
 

Days

Commentator
You were in the wrong church.
There is only one church, and it is in heaven. She was in the world system, the common faith, the catholic system of worship. Reform it forever and it is still a whore and it is still in bed with the nations, it is still preaching for money, and part of the state.
 
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JackDallas

Senator
Supporting Member
There is only one church, and it is in heaven. She was in the world system, the common faith, the catholic system of worship. Reform it forever and it is still a whore and it is still in bed with the nations, it is still preaching for money, and part of the state.
But the Body of Christ is here on Earth and there are some Christ-led churches that truly live the gospel, even though the congregations are (to borrow a cliche) just sinners saved by grace.
 

Days

Commentator
But the Body of Christ is here on Earth and there are some Christ-led churches that truly live the gospel, even though the congregations are (to borrow a cliche) just sinners saved by grace.
Witnesses to the Body of Christ have and do live here on earth, but Christ himself is seated in heaven, as are our spirits, we are seated in heaven with Christ, we are already raptured with this ministry of the body, but even the ministry is in the Spirit, there is no "ground of the church" because the true church is new Jerusalem, and she lives in heaven, she doesn't touch down on terra firma until roughly 1935 or whenever the last 7 years are finished and all the viols are poured out.

All of organized religion is worshipping the beast - in the name of jesus - but the worship is the worship from the catholic faith, it is the same old system that has been around for thousands of years in one form or another; it keeps changing and it is always the same. Priest at the altar performs for the whole congregation. Some type of ritual is followed, usually there is chanting, always there is a cadence, always there is this impression that the priest is holier than the laypeople; clergy and laity, worshipping the gods, and the laity foots the bill. That was Babylon, that was Rome, that was the catholic church throughout the earth, every region had their pope, their holy see, their institution and connection to the government, when the Bible says the whole world worships the beast, it means the whole world follows the worship system of the beast. The nations are the beasts. The culture of worship in each nation worships the beast. and you have no idea you are built that way, you have no idea that you do that, so God is calling everyone to exit organized religion to get the system out of our system, to pull us out of the practices of Babylon.

When John fell down before Jesus - to worship him - and this was in heaven for crying out loud - why did Jesus say, "See thou do it not" ?? Because Jesus recognized the act, that it came from the catholic beast, the way of worship... that even John still carried in his old age and I think John was more transformed than anyone else on earth, but he was still on earth and so he still had those carnal ways of the earth.

The bride makes ready for the wedding by cleansing herself... the church is called out of Babylon and the filth of Babylon... this is happening all over the earth, as I type.
 

Jen

Be happy.
You were in the wrong church.
Churches. And I know that. We moved and needed to find one..........tried several. We had the right one in Washington and wish we could have stayed there.... but even it was tainted. I was treasurer for a while and every Sunday the pastor would come in and say "How much did we rake in" after the service. The people there were wonderful.
 

Jen

Be happy.
Witnesses to the Body of Christ have and do live here on earth, but Christ himself is seated in heaven, as are our spirits, we are seated in heaven with Christ, we are already raptured with this ministry of the body, but even the ministry is in the Spirit, there is no "ground of the church" because the true church is new Jerusalem, and she lives in heaven, she doesn't touch down on terra firma until roughly 1935 or whenever the last 7 years are finished and all the viols are poured out.

All of organized religion is worshipping the beast - in the name of jesus - but the worship is the worship from the catholic faith, it is the same old system that has been around for thousands of years in one form or another; it keeps changing and it is always the same. Priest at the altar performs for the whole congregation. Some type of ritual is followed, usually there is chanting, always there is a cadence, always there is this impression that the priest is holier than the laypeople; clergy and laity, worshipping the gods, and the laity foots the bill. That was Babylon, that was Rome, that was the catholic church throughout the earth, every region had their pope, their holy see, their institution and connection to the government, when the Bible says the whole world worships the beast, it means the whole world follows the worship system of the beast. The nations are the beasts. The culture of worship in each nation worships the beast. and you have no idea you are built that way, you have no idea that you do that, so God is calling everyone to exit organized religion to get the system out of our system, to pull us out of the practices of Babylon.

When John fell down before Jesus - to worship him - and this was in heaven for crying out loud - why did Jesus say, "See thou do it not" ?? Because Jesus recognized the act, that it came from the catholic beast, the way of worship... that even John still carried in his old age and I think John was more transformed than anyone else on earth, but he was still on earth and so he still had those carnal ways of the earth.

The bride makes ready for the wedding by cleansing herself... the church is called out of Babylon and the filth of Babylon... this is happening all over the earth, as I type.
I am a hermit here. And yet I see that I am part of the world whether I want to be or not. We are here so there is no choice in that right now. But ......... I wonder if there is also the need to separate one's self from the politics of the world too. I wonder if justice served here in our courts of law for those who are trying to bring down our nation is as important as I think it is. Maybe not. I don't have an answer to that, but every so often I get an answer to something and it turns out I already knew the answer but just had to realize it.
 

Days

Commentator
I am a hermit here. And yet I see that I am part of the world whether I want to be or not. We are here so there is no choice in that right now. But ......... I wonder if there is also the need to separate one's self from the politics of the world too. I wonder if justice served here in our courts of law for those who are trying to bring down our nation is as important as I think it is. Maybe not. I don't have an answer to that, but every so often I get an answer to something and it turns out I already knew the answer but just had to realize it.
The idea of sanctification; the act of setting oneself aside for the Lord's use, is really mostly the answer of a good conscience to the Lord's act of holiness; which is his setting us aside for his use. So we say "Amen". Then we discipline ourselves to follow his leading and it is that walk that follows the strait and narrow path of discipleship. this is not quite the same as us separating ourselves from the world, that sort of implies that we take the lead and do some type of religious service... not quite the same as simply following the lord, following his holy spirit.

It isn't walking away from the world, it is following the holy spirit... where ever he leads.

I found Jesus outside of organized religion. I grew up an atheist, so religious concepts don't readily make much sense to me. I'm more inclined to go the scientific route... sex to me is just another bodily function, I don't attach all the sinfulness to the act that religion does. That's not to say that scripture doesn't offer good advice about when it is wise and when it is unwise to engage the act, but I had to learn all that, it wasn't part of my upbringing. So when I found Jesus I wasn't interested in organized religion, I was just following Christ in my heart. Then, he led me into organized religion for about 11 years, and boy did he lead me into the thick of it all. I even did a one year training for ministry in one of the many ministries I participated in, and I studied textual criticism and got to the point where I could read New Testament Greek; not from ever learning the language but just from all my study in the texts. And then the holy spirit told me to quit all that, and he led me back out of the churches, back into the wilderness where I began. So, for me, it has been 28 years in the wilderness. My son calls me a hermit, I have to admit, I enjoy the quiet, I don't need to constantly fill my ears with sound or talk, quiet works for me.

But the only thing that matters is that I have followed the holy spirit for whatever amount of time that I did. That's the slow transformation that changes us into a new being. Day by day, little by little, we grow in the spirit the same as we grew in the flesh. Personally, that's all that matters, the individual Christian only answers to Christ. we go where he leads us. simple.

The global movement away from Babylon into the wilderness was scripted by St John 2000 years ago, but it was practically word for word from Jeremiah some 600+ years earlier, so it was part and parcel to the day of the Lord from before the meaning of the prophecy was revealed. there is other places in prophecy where it is revealed that these structures, like the giant churches in Russia, and all those cathedrals in Europe, and the "mega-churches" in America, will go vacant during the kingdom, they will become like medieval castles are to us today; belonging to another era, when man was an idiot.
 

Jen

Be happy.
The idea of sanctification; the act of setting oneself aside for the Lord's use, is really mostly the answer of a good conscience to the Lord's act of holiness; which is his setting us aside for his use. So we say "Amen". Then we discipline ourselves to follow his leading and it is that walk that follows the strait and narrow path of discipleship. this is not quite the same as us separating ourselves from the world, that sort of implies that we take the lead and do some type of religious service... not quite the same as simply following the lord, following his holy spirit.

It isn't walking away from the world, it is following the holy spirit... where ever he leads.

I found Jesus outside of organized religion. I grew up an atheist, so religious concepts don't readily make much sense to me. I'm more inclined to go the scientific route... sex to me is just another bodily function, I don't attach all the sinfulness to the act that religion does. That's not to say that scripture doesn't offer good advice about when it is wise and when it is unwise to engage the act, but I had to learn all that, it wasn't part of my upbringing. So when I found Jesus I wasn't interested in organized religion, I was just following Christ in my heart. Then, he led me into organized religion for about 11 years, and boy did he lead me into the thick of it all. I even did a one year training for ministry in one of the many ministries I participated in, and I studied textual criticism and got to the point where I could read New Testament Greek; not from ever learning the language but just from all my study in the texts. And then the holy spirit told me to quit all that, and he led me back out of the churches, back into the wilderness where I began. So, for me, it has been 28 years in the wilderness. My son calls me a hermit, I have to admit, I enjoy the quiet, I don't need to constantly fill my ears with sound or talk, quiet works for me.

But the only thing that matters is that I have followed the holy spirit for whatever amount of time that I did. That's the slow transformation that changes us into a new being. Day by day, little by little, we grow in the spirit the same as we grew in the flesh. Personally, that's all that matters, the individual Christian only answers to Christ. we go where he leads us. simple.

The global movement away from Babylon into the wilderness was scripted by St John 2000 years ago, but it was practically word for word from Jeremiah some 600+ years earlier, so it was part and parcel to the day of the Lord from before the meaning of the prophecy was revealed. there is other places in prophecy where it is revealed that these structures, like the giant churches in Russia, and all those cathedrals in Europe, and the "mega-churches" in America, will go vacant during the kingdom, they will become like medieval castles are to us today; belonging to another era, when man was an idiot.
I like the quiet too. I need it. And I get it. Nice. And I can identify with and understand what you are talking about here. My upbringing was just the opposite from yours. My parents were truly sanctified and lived their entire lives modeling the kind of behavior expected from someone listening to God's Spirit directing their lives. That's a lot to live up to and for much of my life I didn't live up to it at all. I've come full circle and the lives lived by my parents is the kind of life I want and feel I am living now.
 

Days

Commentator
I like the quiet too. I need it. And I get it. Nice. And I can identify with and understand what you are talking about here. My upbringing was just the opposite from yours. My parents were truly sanctified and lived their entire lives modeling the kind of behavior expected from someone listening to God's Spirit directing their lives. That's a lot to live up to and for much of my life I didn't live up to it at all. I've come full circle and the lives lived by my parents is the kind of life I want and feel I am living now.
When you can feel the presence of the holy spirit, it is easy to understand why Jesus called him the comforter. I think the whole purpose of leaving Babylon is so we can hear the still small voice in our ears. Get away from all the noise of Babylon, so we can find his rest.

John 14:27 "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."
 
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JackDallas

Senator
Supporting Member
Interesting.
I have always had some sort of aversion to group waving of hands and chanting. Something feels creepy and wrong about it. Probably movies I've seen........or ....... I don't know. But I can't do it. I can't participate in it. There is a lot of that in the music of young people......always has been.
Some of it seems phony to me, staged, or programmed, not sincere.
I don't have a problem with raising hands to praise the Lord but the animated, waving of hands and arms and weaving around, seems animated and almost like a competition.
 

JackDallas

Senator
Supporting Member
Witnesses to the Body of Christ have and do live here on earth, but Christ himself is seated in heaven, as are our spirits, we are seated in heaven with Christ, we are already raptured with this ministry of the body, but even the ministry is in the Spirit, there is no "ground of the church" because the true church is new Jerusalem, and she lives in heaven, she doesn't touch down on terra firma until roughly 1935 or whenever the last 7 years are finished and all the viols are poured out.

All of organized religion is worshipping the beast - in the name of jesus - but the worship is the worship from the catholic faith, it is the same old system that has been around for thousands of years in one form or another; it keeps changing and it is always the same. Priest at the altar performs for the whole congregation. Some type of ritual is followed, usually there is chanting, always there is a cadence, always there is this impression that the priest is holier than the laypeople; clergy and laity, worshipping the gods, and the laity foots the bill. That was Babylon, that was Rome, that was the catholic church throughout the earth, every region had their pope, their holy see, their institution and connection to the government, when the Bible says the whole world worships the beast, it means the whole world follows the worship system of the beast. The nations are the beasts. The culture of worship in each nation worships the beast. and you have no idea you are built that way, you have no idea that you do that, so God is calling everyone to exit organized religion to get the system out of our system, to pull us out of the practices of Babylon.

When John fell down before Jesus - to worship him - and this was in heaven for crying out loud - why did Jesus say, "See thou do it not" ?? Because Jesus recognized the act, that it came from the catholic beast, the way of worship... that even John still carried in his old age and I think John was more transformed than anyone else on earth, but he was still on earth and so he still had those carnal ways of the earth.

The bride makes ready for the wedding by cleansing herself... the church is called out of Babylon and the filth of Babylon... this is happening all over the earth, as I type.
You are a bit of a whacko. I agree that the Catholic church teaches heresy. But Christ's church is here and now, on earth, and will remain so until he chooses to remove us. Pretty much every thing you said in this post is mumbo jumbo.
 

Jen

Be happy.
Some of it seems phony to me, staged, or programmed, not sincere.
I don't have a problem with raising hands to praise the Lord but the animated, waving of hands and arms and weaving around, seems animated and almost like a competition.
That's exactly it.
I remember when I was a child, sometimes people would do that and it felt right. Then much later.........it stopped feeling right. Something changed.
 

Days

Commentator
You are a bit of a whacko. I agree that the Catholic church teaches heresy. But Christ's church is here and now, on earth, and will remain so until he chooses to remove us. Pretty much every thing you said in this post is mumbo jumbo.
It's all straight from scripture, Jack. Not my ideas at all.

The Catholic faith I am referring to is larger than the version coming out from the Vatican, the worldwide worship of the gods that has been around for thousands of years.
 

Days

Commentator
That's exactly it.
I remember when I was a child, sometimes people would do that and it felt right. Then much later.........it stopped feeling right. Something changed.
Like so many things that began by the spirit, but then religion tried to repeat the experience by performance. Speaking in tongues is the most famous, but there's also the quakers, and raising up holy hands to the Lord and on and on, you can't put lightening in a bottle, God in a box, or the holy spirit into a ritual.
 

JackDallas

Senator
Supporting Member
It's all straight from scripture, Jack. Not my ideas at all.

The Catholic faith I am referring to is larger than the version coming out from the Vatican, the worldwide worship of the gods that has been around for thousands of years.
Scripture is open to interpretation, Dayo. Just look at how the Pentecostals have twisted the Second Chapter of Acts into a recipe for babbling like magpies, jumping pews, frothing at the mouth, getting their heads caught in folding chairs, bringing chickens back from the dead, making their congregation fall down by farting on them, turning wine into water, and fast-dialing Jesus on their cell phones.
 

Jen

Be happy.
Scripture is open to interpretation, Dayo. Just look at how the Pentecostals have twisted the Second Chapter of Acts into a recipe for babbling like magpies, jumping pews, frothing at the mouth, getting their heads caught in folding chairs, bringing chickens back from the dead, making their congregation fall down by farting on them, turning wine into water, and fast-dialing Jesus on their cell phones.
Just a few reasons I shy away from going to church.... oh the pictures you paint with words, @JackDallas. :eek:
 

Days

Commentator
Scripture is open to interpretation, Dayo. Just look at how the Pentecostals have twisted the Second Chapter of Acts into a recipe for babbling like magpies, jumping pews, frothing at the mouth, getting their heads caught in folding chairs, bringing chickens back from the dead, making their congregation fall down by farting on them, turning wine into water, and fast-dialing Jesus on their cell phones.
Without getting into the particulars - couldn't top this post if I tried - I'm pointing at the entire structure; or to be more precise, the prophecy of the Day of the Lord, which was a vision given to all the prophets, is talking about the entire structure. Babylon is the religious world. Egypt is the secular world. "I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there." (Psalm 87:4) Although you are spot on about the various interpretation of scripture, there is a standard vision called the Day of the Lord that runs from one end of prophecy to the other, every prophet, every apostle was shown it. I was shown it. And the meaning of the vision was opened when it was given to the apostles, because the time of the vision had arrived...

think of it this way. Let's say some professor was giving a lecture on the Day of the Lord vision. So he shortens it to the Lord's Day for his lecture; same difference. Okay so let's say I was able to attend the lecture. It's a standard lecture that was given over and over; like the Odyssey was for ancient Greece. Okay, I might afterwards say, "I was at the lecture on the Lord's Day". Now let's say the lecture, being a standard vision, was administered by the holy spirit... afterwards I might write, "I was in the spirit on the Lord's Day" capice?
Revelation 1:10

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,


... some of us attended the lecture.
 

Days

Commentator
Without getting into the particulars - couldn't top this post if I tried - I'm pointing at the entire structure; or to be more precise, the prophecy of the Day of the Lord, which was a vision given to all the prophets, is talking about the entire structure. Babylon is the religious world. Egypt is the secular world. "I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there." (Psalm 87:4) Although you are spot on about the various interpretation of scripture, there is a standard vision called the Day of the Lord that runs from one end of prophecy to the other, every prophet, every apostle was shown it. I was shown it. And the meaning of the vision was opened when it was given to the apostles, because the time of the vision had arrived...

think of it this way. Let's say some professor was giving a lecture on the Day of the Lord vision. So he shortens it to the Lord's Day for his lecture; same difference. Okay so let's say I was able to attend the lecture. It's a standard lecture that was given over and over; like the Odyssey was for ancient Greece. Okay, I might afterwards say, "I was at the lecture on the Lord's Day". Now let's say the lecture, being a standard vision, was administered by the holy spirit... afterwards I might write, "I was in the spirit on the Lord's Day" capice?
Revelation 1:10

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,


... some of us attended the lecture.
For me, the anointing came in visitations, that's not very accurate doctrine, because a visitation from the Spirit generally means judgment, and it also gives the impression that the Spirit came and left, but it is the best way I can describe what were concentrations of the Spirit's presence. So, back in the mid-1980s, after I trained for ministry, the Spirit visited me for an extended period of time, his presence was so strong, I could actually see the holy spirit, the same way the apostles saw cloven tongues of fire resting upon them at Pentecost. There was a 3 month period during that time when the Spirit had me reading 20-50 chapters of the prophets each day, daily going back over this massive area of scripture that kept hinting there was this event coming: the day of the lord. When I finally got the vision blue print in my head, I wrote a paper "Horsemen riding over our heads" ... the idea there being that we were living right through this event and not seeing it at all. I still have that paper. When we wrote "The Day of the Lord" in BD's blog here, I was rehashing those prophecies and the vision that produced them. It was the same vision over and over, each prophet wrote what they saw, did you know that Paul and Peter also wrote an Apocalypse? The canon is a selection of what was a vast sea of writings. John wasn't writing a review of old testament prophets, he wrote what he was shown... and it was the same vision, and Paul tells us he was shown it, but the seals weren't removed until John was shown it (last). I was shown the vision that is contained in scripture, so you could say that while john was taken up into the Spirit and shown the vision, the Spirit descended on me to show me it through study, but really, there's no difference there. Either way, you are in the Spirit.

This is the return of Christ. We keep looking for Jesus to show up in person, or for his two witnesses to show up in person, but it is the anointing that is returning upon the whole body. We keep expecting to see a repeat of Moses testifying before pharaoh, but nowhere does it say that that is going to happen, maybe the final week of the 42 months of horns, but even there, all it says is the beast has the 2 witnesses killed on the streets of Jerusalem, not that there is any confrontation between them. And it doesn't define the two witnesses as men in the flesh beyond we understand that from the passage in Obadiah "saviors shall appear on Mt Zion" (something like that). John chapter 8 defines who the two witnesses are:

It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
John 8:17-18

So, there they are, the two aspects of the Spirit. The Father's witness is from heaven, it clothes us with power, it is the spirit of prophecy, the gifts of the Spirit given to perform the work of ministry. The Son's witness is here on earth, hidden inside us, transforming us into the nature of Christ, eventually bearing fruit, Christ in us, the hope of glory.

The return of Christ comes first in the Spirit upon the body. Only after the testimony of the final 7 years is over is there a physical manifestation - a return in the flesh - which is the first resurrection; and the kingdom overthrows the beast and rules with a rod of iron; and iron is the Roman Empire, the legs of the image, so while the rule of the beast is destroyed, the governmental structure is taken up by the saints. Hence, "the kingdom is given to the saints". We see Jesus at the head of them, but again, this is the witness on earth, so of course he is there, but is it his physical flesh from Nazareth? Of course not, we knew Christ after the flesh, but now we know him that way no more, now we know him after the spirit. So it is his same presence, but Jesus says he will have a new name; a new name equals a new identity, a different person, we are all given a new name in the resurrection, we are no longer the same people we were in the flesh, and we are not given the same flesh as we donned in this life, we are given spiritual bodies. We become trees of life, and trees are clothed with leaves, the works of the saints in the kingdom heal the nations; so that's the ruler-ship, the governing of the nations, and these trees have fruit; the nature of Christ. And that government springs from the political movement happening right now, the saints are being called out of Babylon, departing organized religion, heading for the wilderness, where the man-child is protected from the government of the beast until his 42 months are finished.

Isaiah 43:19


19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.

 
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