Thoughts?

[Renee]

This is exactly how I feel, Humm. Schools can't do anything about bullying that goes on outside of school. And with the internet and social media, bullying goes way beyond the occasional rude remak or slap session. AND......you can't remove your kid from the bully's proximity because the internet is one big place. Sure, maybe schools can stop the cruel treatment that they witness, but their policies are slow and ineffective and arbitrarily followed.

The police can't really do anything about these campaigns to ruin lives because these kids that engage in it aren't breaking any law.

And some parents don't stop their kids. Some, I'll say few, even instigate it.

So it'd be a big help if there was legislation that a parent could take to the police along with documentation of the harassment and say, "here's the proof of what's going on, here's the law that is being broken...please put a stop to this."


I'm all for personal responsibility but there's no pill we can all take that will make us all responsible and effective parents. Meanwhile, kids are suffering.

You are about cyber bullying. I recently gave a speech to teachers and they were telling me that that is absolutely the worst thing that is going on and I was not really aware of it. Teachers are victims of it also.....and the sex that goes on ......I worry for my granddaughters

 

[connieb]

So this is the story of the 12 year old girl, Rebecca Sedwick, who committed suicide after being bullied relentlessly and terrorized (according to the local police) by two peers. The bullies' parents knew about the bullying and didn't take effective steps to stop their kids from tormenting this girl. One family still defends their daughter, while the other is very contrite and seems to really be grieving for their daughter's part in this tragedy.

Do you think that in cases like this, the guilty parties, if it can be shown that their bullying was excessive (as would be defined by legislation) should be charged with any crime?
Do you think parents who have been notified of their children's bullying antics but did not step in effectively should be held responsible in any way?
Yes, no, maybe....and why?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/15/justice/rebecca-sedwick-bullying-death-arrests/

I agree with NS and CB. In the end - we don't need one more dang law. Period. We have laws and steps that couldhave already been take. They could have take this issue to law enforcement - they could have gotten restraining orders, and if these kids violated the restraining order - then they could have been processed as part of the criminal justice system for that.

What they did was cruel and hateful. But we can't legislate away cruel and hateful behavior.And, actually the more I think we have attempted to do that - the more of it is is out there. Or we have become so thinned skinned because we don't face it often enough that we don't know what to do when we get it.

One thing that I have tried to teach my kids and something I fully believe in is - you can't control what others do - you can only control your reaction to it. And, you give them power when you react to their crap. It is easier said than done of course, but part of combating this problem starts in the HOME. And, I don't just mean in the home of the bully - I mean in the home of the bullied kid. Monitoring the internet usage, facebook accounts, web surfing, chat-rooms. Having a strong cohesive family environment. When you create an environment that the outside world has more influence over your kids than your family unit has you are essentially allowing people to control you. When your kids feel more pressure to conform to what other kids are like because they don't have the self respect and self confidence to either ignore them or isolate themselves from them....that comes from the home and the home environment. And, its not the "everyone gets a medal" attitude, its that as parents we have to raise our kids to be comfortable in their own skin. But, you look around and you see parents who themselves are constantly seeking approval, recognition, acceptance, and its no wonder they raise kids who do the same thing. So, if we are going to change the atmosphere we must ALSO change how we parent - and how as parents - we model behavior to our children.

In the end - we ALREADY have laws that would have addressed this. We do have stalking and harassment laws. This family needed to go through those channels already in existence. If they say they didn't know the extent to which their daughter was being bullied, then as sad as it is, I think its a failure on their part. And, I will not support legislation which essentially passes the buck and holds other people accountable.

 

[Renee]

Another point being missed here is that kids often do not share their families values. There are parents here would slam the door of communication on the child who wanted an abortion or child who was gay so instead they seek other friends. Doesn't mean they don't have good values. I had a girl who was having sex and she told me that they are in love and are going to get married and she could not have been more sincere. She just thought her parents (and me) were wrong. I remember my parents bashing rock 'n roll music and didn't let me listen to it in the house, they thought they had the right values and I just disagreed with them. I don't think there is a parent here who doesn't believe they were raising their children right, and I am sure there isn't a parent here who didn't have problems at some point with teenagers...and it age appropriate !

 

[MaryAnne]

The girl should be punished severely. I do not believe the parents should , Unless of course they were complicit. Some of the worst kids have the best parents, and some of the worst parents have the best kids. At their age it is peer pressure that is affecting their behavior. I am sure even one of two of us did things that we didn't want our parents to know about. As I said if parents are complicit that is one thing , but most parents unfortunately don't have as much control of their kids ages.

But some parents are complicit. Remember the girl whose Mother went after another girl over cheerleading?

 

[fairsheet]

The detail that jumps out at me as to this story, is that one set of parents was aghast at what their daughter had done, and the other rallied to their daughter's defense.

 

[Renee]

But some parents are complicit. Remember the girl whose Mother went after another girl over cheerleading?

That was more than complicit , that was sick .

 

[Hummingbirdlvr3]

No parent is perfect....that's silly. All I am trying to say is kids yield to peer pressure at a certain age and to blame parents isn't fair. I am sure there are many here who have had problems with their kids and I don't think they would want to be blamed. I bet one or two of us have smoked a cigarette, Had a drink, without our parents knowing. It is age appropriate often and some kids go off track. A normal part of adolescence is separation from parents. And that is where we keep our fingers crossed and hope that they take the right path

I'm not speaking of trying cigarettes, Pot, drinking and going a little off track - that's par for the course of growing up- even a right of passage so to speak. I'm speaking of "the worst" as you put it - such as these kids who bullied this girl so badly... If their parents were "good parents" those two girls would not behave that way in the first place, and secondly the parents would have taken care of business and put a stop to it immediately!

 

[Hummingbirdlvr3]

The detail that jumps out at me as to this story, is that one set of parents was aghast at what their daughter had done, and the other rallied to their daughter's defense.

Yes! One can be a bad parent BUT know right from wrong, and take responsibility. Then we have parents that not only are bad parents, but don't take responsibility when their kids do wrong.

 

[Hummingbirdlvr3]

I agree with NS and CB. In the end - we don't need one more dang law. Period. We have laws and steps that couldhave already been take. They could have take this issue to law enforcement - they could have gotten restraining orders, and if these kids violated the restraining order - then they could have been processed as part of the criminal justice system for that.

What they did was cruel and hateful. But we can't legislate away cruel and hateful behavior.And, actually the more I think we have attempted to do that - the more of it is is out there. Or we have become so thinned skinned because we don't face it often enough that we don't know what to do when we get it.

One thing that I have tried to teach my kids and something I fully believe in is - you can't control what others do - you can only control your reaction to it. And, you give them power when you react to their crap. It is easier said than done of course, but part of combating this problem starts in the HOME. And, I don't just mean in the home of the bully - I mean in the home of the bullied kid. Monitoring the internet usage, facebook accounts, web surfing, chat-rooms. Having a strong cohesive family environment. When you create an environment that the outside world has more influence over your kids than your family unit has you are essentially allowing people to control you. When your kids feel more pressure to conform to what other kids are like because they don't have the self respect and self confidence to either ignore them or isolate themselves from them....that comes from the home and the home environment. And, its not the "everyone gets a medal" attitude, its that as parents we have to raise our kids to be comfortable in their own skin. But, you look around and you see parents who themselves are constantly seeking approval, recognition, acceptance, and its no wonder they raise kids who do the same thing. So, if we are going to change the atmosphere we must ALSO change how we parent - and how as parents - we model behavior to our children.

In the end - we ALREADY have laws that would have addressed this. We do have stalking and harassment laws. This family needed to go through those channels already in existence. If they say they didn't know the extent to which their daughter was being bullied, then as sad as it is, I think its a failure on their part. And, I will not support legislation which essentially passes the buck and holds other people accountable.

My daughter was being bullied as a teen - over a boy of course. This girl pursued my daughter in a car chase, the bully smacked up her car while chasing down my daughter. I managed to get the girls home phone number and called her mother - told the mother what's up. The woman didn't sound happy to speak to me. I used the word "chase" to describe the incident - she preferred the word "followed" I begged the question : "at 80 miles per hr.?! This one was in denial too. Her daughter continued bullying my daughter via the Internet, made the mistake of using my daughter's full name amidst threats. I went to the police, he told me he would have a word with her - stating that **he couldn't do anything.** Also, an order of protection is just a piece of paper. It doesn't do much good . Parents need to be held accountable as to AFTER they have been notified of said bullying , and do not fix their child's behavior, THEN the law can step in. THE PARENT can be charged as an adult, and good to that. If they can't act as a responsible adult they should be held accountable by law.

 

[resident_evil]

Sadly many parents are in denial. The parents of this boy were on CNN and they just insisted that their child was innocent and did nothing wrong. This happens all the time . I have kids who were monsters in the classroom and the parents were stunned because they were perfect at home. And very often that is true and they act out in another place. And I have had kids with drug addicted parents Who made my classroom a second home and were eager to please. There is no set rule.

When kids act out spankings work whether actual spankings by the parents or society expressing its displeasure by applying ramifications.

Understanding these kids is necessary but apologizing for them will never ever work.

 

[gigi]

There are laws on the books right now that guarantee adults the right to a hostility free workplace. And what this means is that we can expect to work free of personal insults, ethnic slurs, harassment of any kind. These are the laws partly responsible for the fact that women in the workforce today don't have to put up with
comments about their bodies, their sex lives, their looks, crude invitations, etc.....These laws also guarantee gay adults the right to work without being tormented for being gay. What's more, when someone brings a case against a coworker for sexual harassment, the accused is the one bearing the burden of proof. I doubt any adult here would be willing to give up the right to a hostility free environment. And why did these laws come about? Because people were just too thin skinned to deal with the occasional idiot at work? Because people weren't raised to have confidence in themselves and with the ability to quickly compartmentalize the cruelty of others before their feelings were affected?
No.
These laws came about because discriminatory behavior and behavior that impacted the victim's productivity, safety, and psychological health needed to be stopped. When it came to protecting adults, the case law went all the way up to the SCOTUS, with plenty of support.

But when it comes to kids facing the exact same kind of cruelty, we don't want anymore laws? It goes without saying-but I'll say it anyway!-children are not equipped with the rationale and harder shell adults are. Nor do they have the autonomy adults have. Rebecca's parents couldn't get any help from school or law enforcement so they switched schools. But the wackos who were intent on destroying her made sure to find her and destroy even that schoole experience. It's pathological.
Yet we adults insist on strong protections against the things our kids are having to face unprotected. Imagine if we handled workplace complaints of harassment(including sexual harassment) along with pushing, shoving, vandalism, like they do in schools nowadays. Imagine having to go to work everyday and deal with being called a whore or a fag, or knowing that a group of your coworkers have decided to start an all out rumor campaign about you? Imagine hearing "You should die" coming from the person in the desk next to you, over and over.

Who would be willing to put up with the torment while anti-harassment policies were slowly examined, while the guilty were analyzed and counseled, while different avenues meant to gently convince the guilty away from their offensive behavior were tried out over the course of months or years? It's unthinkable to most of us because we've enjoyed protections. But when it comes to kids we're gonna place the responsibility for how they react to cruelty solely on the parents?

 

[gigi]

Another point being missed here is that kids often do not share their families values. There are parents here would slam the door of communication on the child who wanted an abortion or child who was gay so instead they seek other friends. Doesn't mean they don't have good values. I had a girl who was having sex and she told me that they are in love and are going to get married and she could not have been more sincere. She just thought her parents (and me) were wrong. I remember my parents bashing rock 'n roll music and didn't let me listen to it in the house, they thought they had the right values and I just disagreed with them. I don't think there is a parent here who doesn't believe they were raising their children right, and I am sure there isn't a parent here who didn't have problems at some point with teenagers...and it age appropriate !

I think most of us blow off the family taught values when we're teens. But this cruelty......that's something else. Something really broken in a kid. Julie pointed out that kids like that need help. But the victim needs respite immediately. When it's our own child being destroyed, do we really care who broke the perpetrator?

 

[PACE]

So this is the story of the 12 year old girl, Rebecca Sedwick, who committed suicide after being bullied relentlessly and terrorized (according to the local police) by two peers. The bullies' parents knew about the bullying and didn't take effective steps to stop their kids from tormenting this girl. One family still defends their daughter, while the other is very contrite and seems to really be grieving for their daughter's part in this tragedy.

Do you think that in cases like this, the guilty parties, if it can be shown that their bullying was excessive (as would be defined by legislation) should be charged with any crime?
Do you think parents who have been notified of their children's bullying antics but did not step in effectively should be held responsible in any way?
Yes, no, maybe....and why?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/15/justice/rebecca-sedwick-bullying-death-arrests/

Social media has it's own set of issues, and children driving their own social media is the moral equivalent of them driving a car; without the proper training and stewardship, they will get into trouble.

This case is about the kind of harassment that is illegal under the law; the girls in question "invited" this girl to kill herself.

About thirty years ago, I was drawn into a case where a young woman killed herself , there were complaints made by her to her employer about harassment in the workplace; she was "invited to kill herself" daily by one person then spread lies and rumors about her.

This came out in court and it was dismissed, BUT the family brought "wrongful death" charges against the person in question and won.

Now that was in the workplace, and social media IS the wild wild west, it's new and it's green, you can expect legislation and regulation to guarantee the safe passage of information and the protection of children on line in the future.

You would not hand the car keys to a thirteen year old girl and let her drive alone, she might kill someone else or herself.

You do the same thing when you do not monitor nor regulate your child's time on line.

It can lead to situations like this, and this is unfortunate for all,

But mostly the girl who didn't see a venue, and a way to defray the actions taken by her tormentors.



Regards
Pace

 

[gigi]

Social media has it's own set of issues, and children driving their own social media is the moral equivalent of them driving a car; without the proper training and stewardship, they will get into trouble.

This case is about the kind of harassment that is illegal under the law; the girls in question "invited" this girl to kill herself.

About thirty years ago, I was drawn into a case where a young woman killed herself , there were complaints made by her to her employer about harassment in the workplace; she was "invited to kill herself" daily by one person then spread lies and rumors about her.

This came out in court and it was dismissed, BUT the family brought "wrongful death" charges against the person in question and won.

Now that was in the workplace, and social media IS the wild wild west, it's new and it's green, you can expect legislation and regulation to guarantee the safe passage of information and the protection of children on line in the future.

You would not hand the car keys to a thirteen year old girl and let her drive alone, she might kill someone else or herself.

You do the same thing when you do not monitor nor regulate your child's time on line.

It can lead to situations like this, and this is unfortunate for all,

But mostly the girl who didn't see a venue, and a way to defray the actions taken by her tormentors.



Regards
Pace

I believe the girl's facebook page was closed a long while ago, and her parents were monitoring texts and blocking numbers.

We seem to unintentionally be blaming the victim a bit here, or perhaps, her family.
What happens if you are an involved parent who doesn't leave their child all alone with the internet and you do all the right things-and even make sure your child isn't online at all, but still your child is being tormented daily? The stuff that starts on the internet makes its way into real life.

 

[PACE]

I believe the girl's facebook page was closed a long while ago, and her parents were monitoring texts and blocking numbers.

We seem to unintentionally be blaming the victim a bit here, or perhaps, her family.
What happens if you are an involved parent who doesn't leave their child all alone with the internet and you do all the right things-and even make sure your child isn't online at all, but still your child is being tormented daily? The stuff that starts on the internet makes its way into real life.

It doesn't have to, adults can compartmentalize their lives, we are programmed to do so.
We multi task and use our abilities to address different situations at different times, This is part of the negotiation skills learned as children, just as children learn to negotiate thru doll playing and other forms of play, we learn and use these skills to separate the wheat of information from the chaff of information overload.

The tormenting of this girl speaks to a higher issue, and that would be where the freedom of speech overspills into abusive behavior and lack of self control. The girl in question did not have the control to separate the wheat from the chaff, she was most likely too young. We don't realize it, but children are pushed into taking the next step in their development sometimes without thought given to the consequences.

Group think, while it's pleasing and secure to some, can be dangerous in situations like this, if you don't know enough to look at the horizon on a boat, the volume of waves can lead you to become physically ill; Group think and this is a form of communication among young people can become a barometer for an insecure person to use to gage their own self worth.

Teaching children self worth while maintaining the values of character and good fellowship are not necessarily diametrically opposed ideals; a strong sense of self can keep a child from judging their own self worth when the specter of group think gone awry presents itself.

The net, like I said, is still a developing entity, just like any other form of communication. I would argue that there should be some kind of training for kids to use the net in a safe and secure manner.

But it starts at home, if parents aren't vigilant in instilling a sense of worth in their children, while maintaining the right level of humility, then people produce destructive children, who will destroy others or destroy themselves.

Regards
Pace

 

[fairsheet]

I believe the girl's facebook page was closed a long while ago, and her parents were monitoring texts and blocking numbers.

We seem to unintentionally be blaming the victim a bit here, or perhaps, her family.
What happens if you are an involved parent who doesn't leave their child all alone with the internet and you do all the right things-and even make sure your child isn't online at all, but still your child is being tormented daily? The stuff that starts on the internet makes its way into real life.

gigi, I think this is one of those rare threads in which everyone agrees with you*, even as they may disagree with you.

I don't mean you specifically! I just mean "rare threads" in general.

 

[Renee]

I'm not speaking of trying cigarettes, Pot, drinking and going a little off track - that's par for the course of growing up- even a right of passage so to speak. I'm speaking of "the worst" as you put it - such as these kids who bullied this girl so badly... If their parents were "good parents" those two girls would not behave that way in the first place, and secondly the parents would have taken care of business and put a stop to it immediately!

Do you really think the parents knew? If they did and did nothing, then they are complicit. And you are incorrect that the girls wouldn't be bullies if their parents were good parents. That is an overgeneralization, do you know everything your children do?

 

[Renee]

My daughter was being bullied as a teen - over a boy of course. This girl pursued my daughter in a car chase, the bully smacked up her car while chasing down my daughter. I managed to get the girls home phone number and called her mother - told the mother what's up. The woman didn't sound happy to speak to me. I used the word "chase" to describe the incident - she preferred the word "followed" I begged the question : "at 80 miles per hr.?! This one was in denial too. Her daughter continued bullying my daughter via the Internet, made the mistake of using my daughter's full name amidst threats. I went to the police, he told me he would have a word with her - stating that **he couldn't do anything.** Also, an order of protection is just a piece of paper. It doesn't do much good . Parents need to be held accountable as to AFTER they have been notified of said bullying , and do not fix their child's behavior, THEN the law can step in. THE PARENT can be charged as an adult, and good to that. If they can't act as a responsible adult they should be held accountable by law.

I am so sorry that happened to your daughter. I wonder why the cops said they couldn't do anything, because they can. I agree if parents know and do nothing...that is in their control.... Then they are complicit.

 

[Renee]

I think most of us blow off the family taught values when we're teens. But this cruelty......that's something else. Something really broken in a kid. Julie pointed out that kids like that need help. But the victim needs respite immediately. When it's our own child being destroyed, do we really care who broke the perpetrator?

My daughter is a high school counselor and when a kid is a bully, there are harsh consequences in her school...and most parents are usually surprised that their kids are bullies. And I agree, the parents have to face reality. My classroom was called the "sanctuary" and no one dissed another kid ....and lived!

 

[Renee]

It doesn't have to, adults can compartmentalize their lives, we are programmed to do so.
We multi task and use our abilities to address different situations at different times, This is part of the negotiation skills learned as children, just as children learn to negotiate thru doll playing and other forms of play, we learn and use these skills to separate the wheat of information from the chaff of information overload.

The tormenting of this girl speaks to a higher issue, and that would be where the freedom of speech overspills into abusive behavior and lack of self control. The girl in question did not have the control to separate the wheat from the chaff, she was most likely too young. We don't realize it, but children are pushed into taking the next step in their development sometimes without thought given to the consequences.

Group think, while it's pleasing and secure to some, can be dangerous in situations like this, if you don't know enough to look at the horizon on a boat, the volume of waves can lead you to become physically ill; Group think and this is a form of communication among young people can become a barometer for an insecure person to use to gage their own self worth.

Teaching children self worth while maintaining the values of character and good fellowship are not necessarily diametrically opposed ideals; a strong sense of self can keep a child from judging their own self worth when the specter of group think gone awry presents itself.

The net, like I said, is still a developing entity, just like any other form of communication. I would argue that there should be some kind of training for kids to use the net in a safe and secure manner.

But it starts at home, if parents aren't vigilant in instilling a sense of worth in their children, while maintaining the right level of humility, then people produce destructive children, who will destroy others or destroy themselves.

Regards
Pace

I agree with most of what you said ....but peers define kids. The obese kid may have parents instilling self worth, but kids taunting him define him. No matter how many times we say that it shouldn't bother them, it does. Peer Approval at a certain point is even more important than parental approval.