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Union busting?

Zam-Zam

Senator
my understandng is that there is an issue with sick time...and one of the unions voted against.

apparently this administration seeks to force it on them....this anti union anti collective bargaining move is apparently a good idea to some.....but if the republicans vote such a lousy move down..then theyre sabotaging...

mind numbing ... affording sick and PTO time equitably should be in everyones interest...

In a nutshell:

  • Eight out of 12 labor unions have reached tentative agreements with the railroad carriers, up from five last week.
  • But BLET and SMART TD, representing half of all rail workers, tell CNBC there will be no ratification unless quality-of-life issues including vacation, sick days and attendance policies are addressed.
  • A “cooling off” period expires Friday, at which time workers can strike, but railroad representatives stress the negotiations are ongoing and a strike is not inevitable.
  • Roughly 40% of the nation’s long-distance trade moves by rails and the idling of 7,000 trains daily would trigger retail product shortages and widespread manufacturing shutdowns.

Large railroad labor unions move closer to a strike (cnbc.com)


Seems the "quality of life" issues is a deal-breaker for some, but not all, of the twelve unions involved.

The devil is in the details.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Nah. C’mon Phil…you KNOW the idiotic adolescent, liquid-standard, have-it-both-ways, self-exempting, mentally-deficient drill…

It is wrong and unfair when non-Democrats like Reagan do it. It is “masterful” “remarkable” “perfection” when Democrats do it…the very definition of responsible, brilliant economic and social stewardship.

Do better!
the feller ran away.... but, there's still hope in pretzellogicville...
 

Bugsy McGurk

President
perhaps neither. why do you limit the options are you for a quashing of the collective bargaining process?
Nope. That process already took place. Impasse exists. The realistic options are the two I laid out. Choosing neither is choosing no. 2 - economic catastrophe.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
In a nutshell:

  • Eight out of 12 labor unions have reached tentative agreements with the railroad carriers, up from five last week.
  • But BLET and SMART TD, representing half of all rail workers, tell CNBC there will be no ratification unless quality-of-life issues including vacation, sick days and attendance policies are addressed.
  • A “cooling off” period expires Friday, at which time workers can strike, but railroad representatives stress the negotiations are ongoing and a strike is not inevitable.
  • Roughly 40% of the nation’s long-distance trade moves by rails and the idling of 7,000 trains daily would trigger retail product shortages and widespread manufacturing shutdowns.

Large railroad labor unions move closer to a strike (cnbc.com)


Seems the "quality of life" issues is a deal-breaker for some, but not all, of the twelve unions involved.

The devil is in the details.
yes... thanks for the summary.... indeed, not a high bar..to negotiate on improved standards for vaca and sick time...
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Nope. That process already took place. Impasse exists. The realistic options are the two I laid out. Choosing neither is choosing no. 2 - economic catastrophe.
no. there was a cooling off period, and as another poster outlined...several did not ratify the proposed changes... as is their right. correct?

further negotiation is an avenue to avoiding economic catastrophe, yes?
 

RickWA

Snagglesooth
no. there was a cooling off period, and as another poster outlined...several did not ratify the proposed changes... as is their right. correct?

further negotiation is an avenue to avoiding economic catastrophe, yes?
Welp. Add Unionism to the unbelievably lenghty list of DNC Trojan Horses that conceal the fact that marxism is their only goal. Toss it on the pile of opportunistically abandoned “central causes/values” that are readily jettisoned when power requires…
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
yes... thanks for the summary.... indeed, not a high bar..to negotiate on improved standards for vaca and sick time...
More background:

In July, President Joe Biden appointed a Presidential Emergency Board in hopes of averting a strike and making recommendations that railroads and labor unions could agree on.

Attendance policies and staffing have been a point of contention over the last two years of this negotiation. More than 700 union workers quit after BNSF, a wholly owned subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway, instituted a points-based attendance system in February. The system was revised in May but union workers say the modifications did not fix the safety issues calling it “brutal.” Labor sources tell CNBC employees would be penalized for taking a day off to go to their parent’s funeral.

The railroad has contended that the new policy is critical to making sure it has enough workers available for its trains. Rails have faced scrutiny for worsening service from unions, shippers and regulators.


Large railroad labor unions move closer to a strike (cnbc.com)


In all likelihood, both sides have a point. I suppose one way of resolving the manning issue is to hire more employees, but then to keep the cost of labor at a level near where it sits currently, wages and/or benefits would likely have to be curtailed...Something the unions would also likely reject.

And so here we are, with the government threatening to intervene. I'm pretty sure the President and Congress have no problem taking as many sick days as they wish to...
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
More background:

In July, President Joe Biden appointed a Presidential Emergency Board in hopes of averting a strike and making recommendations that railroads and labor unions could agree on.

Attendance policies and staffing have been a point of contention over the last two years of this negotiation. More than 700 union workers quit after BNSF, a wholly owned subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway, instituted a points-based attendance system in February. The system was revised in May but union workers say the modifications did not fix the safety issues calling it “brutal.” Labor sources tell CNBC employees would be penalized for taking a day off to go to their parent’s funeral.

The railroad has contended that the new policy is critical to making sure it has enough workers available for its trains. Rails have faced scrutiny for worsening service from unions, shippers and regulators.


Large railroad labor unions move closer to a strike (cnbc.com)


In all likelihood, both sides have a point. I suppose one way of resolving the manning issue is to hire more employees, but then to keep the cost of labor at a level near where it sits currently, wages and/or benefits would likely have to be curtailed...Something the unions would also likely reject.

And so here we are, with the government threatening to intervene. I'm pretty sure the President and Congress have no problem taking as many sick days as they wish to...
a worthwhile quote...just sub Dem for Gop
Yup. The decades long attacks on labor unions is another huge factor in the rapid growth in the wealth gap.

And the GOP Propaganda Machine is so effective that they convince ordinary working people to support the disabling of labor unions and incessant tax cuts for the fat cats. They literally convince them to oppose their own interests.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
a worthwhile quote...just sub Dem for Gop
:)

History:

The last time Congress intervened was in 1992 after the machinists union struck CSX in a dispute over a new labor contract. Then U.S. President George H.W. Bush called on Congress to act quickly. Bush signed the return-to-work bill after the two-day strike shut down nationwide railroad freight service.

We'll see who condemns one while praising the other...To some, the action matters less than who undertakes it.
 

Difficult decisions ahead as Biden and Congress mull imposing terms on the rail union...

Eek. Seems very Russian....eh comrade?
Didn't Reagan fire the Air Traffic Controllers for National Security concerns (firing those who would not return to work after having been ordered to do so) ?

Biden is probably on safe ground here, nobody is going to vote to tank an economy that is already well on its way to a recession.

Yes, it sucks for those workers who are trying to get something better.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Didn't Reagan fire the Air Traffic Controllers for National Security concerns (firing those who would not return to work after having been ordered to do so) ?

Biden is probably on safe ground here, nobody is going to vote to tank an economy that is already well on its way to a recession.

Yes, it sucks for those workers who are trying to get something better.
yes, not saying he is not. am addressing the union issue.... collective bargaining in good faith... vs what we see here which is forced acceptance.
further, a prior posters positioning that should the GOP vote itdown they would be sabotaging. would seem to me to be an unpalatable choice between the two....forced compliance with unpalatable terms,,,
 

Bugsy McGurk

President
yes, not saying he is not. am addressing the union issue.... collective bargaining in good faith... vs what we see here which is forced acceptance.
further, a prior posters positioning that should the GOP vote itdown they would be sabotaging. would seem to me to be an unpalatable choice between the two....forced compliance with unpalatable terms,,,
Please. You just can’t pretend that the Republicans in Congress care about unions so much that they will vote no to preserve union strength. Their no votes can be chalked up to one thing - a desire to sabotage the economy for political purposes.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Please. You just can’t pretend that the Republicans in Congress care about unions so much that they will vote no to preserve union strength. Their no votes can be chalked up to one thing - a desire to sabotage the economy for political purposes.
So you're for forcibly compelling the unions to take a less than adequate deal. They should continue to work without their provision for sick and paid time off?
 

EatTheRich

President
He’s obviously not busting the union. He’s calling for approval of the deal that was reached, although he would sweeten it in numerous respects.

That canard aside, he’s asking Congress to move to avoid economic calamity. Avoiding economic calamity should be seen as a worthy goal. So it will go up for a vote in the House and Senate. The Republicans will no doubt consider whether they can engage in sabotage while keeping their fingerprints off the damage they want to do. Should be interesting.
He’s intervening on the employers’ side at labor’s expense.
 

EatTheRich

President
Nope. Congress sets the labor laws. They have the power. It would certainly not be an unfair labor process, and the collective bargaining process has been exhausted. There are two remaking choices:

1. Pass the bill, or

2. Watch the railroads be shut down with the economy being devastated.

Which of those options should be chosen?
3. Use his authority as commander-in-chief to nationalize the railroads and put the union in charge of transportation decisions.
 

EatTheRich

President
Welp. Add Unionism to the unbelievably lenghty list of DNC Trojan Horses that conceal the fact that marxism is their only goal. Toss it on the pile of opportunistically abandoned “central causes/values” that are readily jettisoned when power requires…
If they were Marxist they would support every fight by labor against capital. What this proves is that their leftist camouflage is intended to conceal their inveterate capitalism.
 

Bugsy McGurk

President
So you're for forcibly compelling the unions to take a less than adequate deal. They should continue to work without their provision for sick and paid time off?
Of course not. Such things can be negotiated. But the economy wouldn’t be devastated in the interim. Bad news for Biden haters and other saboteurs.
 
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