About them doggone drones.

[Queen Titania]

Queenie, if these Ancient people would stay on their own f---ing land and not fly airplanes into our buildings then our drones would not be aimed at them. As far as I know, no Brit has performed a terrorist act on the USA and as far as I know no Brit has been taken out by a drone. But if perchance a terrorist tries to hide in your house then you better report him or get out of the house. Otherwise your a-- might be wiped out too!

Apart from the fact that no planes flew into the Towers

They are indigenous people who have not, nor ever have had any interest in the USA or anything outside their terrain .........you of all people should realise what is happening here. US Corperate want to eun pipe lines through their Land ...where ever there are Drones murdering and making mad indigenous peoples, Corperate is never far behind.

24/7 humming over the villages. When parent kiss their children goodnight they never know if they will see them in the morning for 7 years this has been going on ..........

http://livingunderdrones.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Stanford-NYU-LIVING-UNDER-DRONES.pdf

 

[NightSwimmer]

Apart from the fact that no planes flew into the Towers

See?

That right there.

That's why you cannot be taken seriously.

 

[Zam-Zam]

I don't doubt that civilians are killed by drone strikes. Their innocence, on the other hand, is most certainly debatable.

But, you know... If some anonymous "prominent American journalist" said it, then it must be true, eh?

News item:

Five killed in US terror drone attack in northwest Pakistan


At least five people have been killed and many others wounded in an attack carried out by a US assassination drone in northwestern Pakistan.


The US killer drone fired six missiles at targets in the Pakistani tribal region of North Waziristan on Wednesday.

Pakistan’s tribal regions are attacked by US terror drones almost regularly with Washington claiming that militants are the targets. However, casualty figures clearly indicate that civilians are the main victims.

The killing of Pakistani civilians, including women and children, has strained relations between Islamabad and Washington.







Complete text: http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/02/06/287588/us-drone-attack-kills-5-in-nw-pakistan/



Do you believe the children were likely terrorists?

I suppose it's possible, and I can't prove they weren't. Does that make it okay then?

Would your answer change if George Bush was in the White House?

 

[NightSwimmer]

There have been more than five Americans killed by police handguns in my relatively small county in the past few months.

Why don't you care about their lives?

 

[Zam-Zam]

There have been more than five Americans killed by police handguns in my relatively small county in the past few months.

Why don't you care about their lives?

Whoa, red herring alert. When all else fails, change the subject.

Can you provide some empirical evidence that I "do not care" about the victims of violent crime? Or was it just a dumb thing to say?

 

[Queen Titania]

See?

That right there.

That's why you cannot be taken seriously.

Oh for heavens sake it has been proved over and over, we saw not very good computer Graphics as the buildings were pulled except for an ooops

[video=youtube_share;-W0zSlzSMTs]http://youtu.be/-W0zSlzSMTs[/video]

 

[Queen Titania]

There have been more than five Americans killed by police handguns in my relatively small county in the past few months.

Why don't you care about their lives?

More to the point how many innocents have been murdered in revenge for 9/11. The wrath of God/USA ?


Oh I forgot the USA doesn't count 'wogs' as people, they are just 'bug splats'

 

[Arkady]

I have no problem with drones as a technology. I do have a problem with the notion that we have a national dictator who has the unilateral authority to kill anyone he wants, anywhere he wants, without any meaningful checks and balances, without any standards but those he invents himself, in secret, merely by citing the "war on terror." Whether he has people killed with state-of-the-art unmanned drones or with primitive clubs, doesn't really matter. The technology isn't the problem, the unfettered discretion is. That is what makes it extra-legal. And "deliberate extra-legal killing" is just a nice way to say "murder."

 

[Zam-Zam]

More to the point how many innocents have been murdered in revenge for 9/11. The wrath of God/USA ?


Oh I forgot the USA doesn't count 'wogs' as people, they are just 'bug splats'

We all agree Adam Lanza committed a truly horrendous act of savagery in Newtown, Conn. Was it any worse than.....this?:


The Sandy Hook Elementary shooting that took place in Newtown, Connecticut, is going to affect the loved ones of the victims for years to come and this is something that should not be ignored.

Although most of us do not know the victims or their families, the news reports each and every detail of the event, and our hearts and thoughts go out to those who are suffering.

Yet, something about this seems entirely hypocritical; we as Americans largely ignore when our own government, in countries around the world, murders innocent children but when an American child dies, our media and our nation can focus on nothing else.

Meanwhile, U.S. drones are killing children and terrorizing families abroad. Earlier this year, the Bureau of Investigative Journalism found that 176 children have been murdered in Pakistan alone. And along with drone attacks, an average of 4.8 children are killed per day in Afghanistan where earlier this year, a U.S. sergeant is reported to have killed 9 children. Will these murders be deemed worthy of our thoughts and prayers, or even our news headlines?

These deaths abroad are tragic too. These deaths will also affect the loved ones of victims for years to come and their lives are no less-worthy of thoughts, prayers and government (or civilian) action.

Some will disagree with me and say that we should care about the deaths of children in the U.S. to a greater extent than the deaths of those abroad, because children living here are part of our nation. But most of us don't know the loved ones of the deceased in Connecticut any better than we know deceased in other countries. With all men (and children) created equal, we as Americans should care when any child is killed, not just the ones who happen to be born in a certain geographical region called the United States.





Complete text: http://www.policymic.com/articles/2...es-have-killed-176-children-in-pakistan-alone

 

[middleview]

It really does seems as though you have an uncontrollable addiction to the blood of indigenous peoples doesn't it ?

Yeah, and the Berlin Airlift was an example of the US militarily intervening in another country.....

Your own uncontrollable addiction is anything that can be twisted into Anti-US propaganda.

 

[Zam-Zam]

I have no problem with drones as a technology. I do have a problem with the notion that we have a national dictator who has the unilateral authority to kill anyone he wants, anywhere he wants, without any meaningful checks and balances, without any standards but those he invents himself, in secret, merely by citing the "war on terror." Whether he has people killed with state-of-the-art unmanned drones or with primitive clubs, doesn't really matter. The technology isn't the problem, the unfettered discretion is. That is what makes it extra-legal. And "deliberate extra-legal killing" is just a nice way to say "murder."

I concur entirely, whether the 'dictator' in question is named Bush or Obama. Wrong is wrong.




The technology isn't the problem, the unfettered discretion is.




Seems that argument could be applied elsewhere too.........

 

[middleview]

Tribal peoples did what ? What are you talking about Gramps ? There is no such thing as a World Wide Terrorists organization. We are talking of Ancient peoples local to Corperate interests. We are talking about the people who do not want Corperate stealing and destroying their Lands.

http://livingunderdrones.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Stanford-NYU-LIVING-UNDER-DRONES.pdf

Al Qaeda is a figment of our imagination. The bombings of the Gold Mohur hotel in Aden, of the embassies in Africa, The attempted attack on Phillipine Airlines fl 434, the USS Cole, the Khobar towers, the 2002 bombings in Bali, 2003 in Istanbul, London bus bombings, the Danish embassy in Pakistan (2008), the Islamabad Marriott, the attempt on Northwest airlines fl 253....never happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_al-Qaeda_attacks

The US made up all those attacks to steal mineral deposits in the tribal lands in Pakistan.....

 

[middleview]

I have no problem with drones as a technology. I do have a problem with the notion that we have a national dictator who has the unilateral authority to kill anyone he wants, anywhere he wants, without any meaningful checks and balances, without any standards but those he invents himself, in secret, merely by citing the "war on terror." Whether he has people killed with state-of-the-art unmanned drones or with primitive clubs, doesn't really matter. The technology isn't the problem, the unfettered discretion is. That is what makes it extra-legal. And "deliberate extra-legal killing" is just a nice way to say "murder."

Dictator? Who would that be? By definition, winning an election eliminates dicator as an appropriate description.
If you know where the leadership of an armed insurgency is, I'd guess you think we should issue warrants for their arrest? Is that right? And what if they happen to be hiding in areas with no real government or law enforcement? Do we have to wait until they can be taken into custody? Are you thinking we should have sent US marshalls to aprehend them? Would you volunteer for the assignment?

 

[middleview]

I concur entirely, whether the 'dictator' in question is named Bush or Obama. Wrong is wrong.
The technology isn't the problem, the unfettered discretion is.

Seems that argument could be applied elsewhere too.........

They declared war on the US. Fighting the war using drones, air power, tomahawk missiles....doesn't matter. We clearly have attempted to limit how many people are killed as we persue those who started this war. Have there been people killed who were innocent? Yes. Were they the target? No. Were they living in close proximity to someone who was the enemy and was the target? Yes.

When you are at war there is the possibility that non-combatants may be killed. If the leadership of Al Qaeda or the Taliban valued their neighbors and loved ones....they'd stay away from them or announce that they were ending their participation in the conflict. There are no other alternatives for them or us.

 

[zzigzzag]

Why no link? Didn't want us to see that it's from a voluminous, silly putty rant against Obama that tries to make him look worse than Bush? Cursory scrutiny of your dumb list dispels any notion that accuracy was the goal. It would take all day just to weed out the items intended to transfer blame from Bush to Obama for decisions made before he took office..

http://stpeteforpeace.org/obama.html

You're welcome.

 

[zzigzzag]

It really does seems as though you have an uncontrollable addiction to the blood of indigenous peoples doesn't it ?

We can't all be compassionate imperialists like the Brits have always been....so caring for the "indigenous peoples" as they stole their land and beat Christianity into them.

 

[Craig]

It really does seems as though you have an uncontrollable addiction to the blood of indigenous peoples doesn't it ?

We can't all be compassionate imperialists like the Brits have always been....so caring for the "indigenous peoples" as they stole their land and beat Christianity into them.

Bruce Cockburn...Stolen Land


[video=youtube;pmbbaNFONMY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmbbaNFONMY[/video]

 

[zzigzzag]

The US made up all those attacks to steal mineral deposits in the tribal lands in Pakistan.....

Sneaky bastards, ain't we?

Minerals

The exploration of Pakistan’s mineral wealth is far from complete, but some two dozen different types of exploitable minerals have been located. Iron ore deposits are mostly of poor quality. The most extensive known reserves are situated in the Kalabagh region, in western Punjab. Other low-grade ore reserves have been found in Hazara, in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. Small reserves of high-grade iron ore have been identified in Chitral and in the Chilghazi area (located in northwestern Balochistan), as well as in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. Deposits of copper ore equaling or surpassing the reserves of iron ore have been found, but most sites remain unexploited. There are enormous reserves of easily exploited limestone that form the basis of a growing cement industry, a major component of the manufacturing sector. Other minerals that are exploited include chromite (mostly for export), barite, celestine (strontium sulfate), antimony, aragonite (calcium carbonate), gypsum, rock salt, and marble and granite.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked...698/Agriculture-forestry-and-fishing#toc23695

I just can't figure out if we're more motivated by the low grade iron ore or cornering the limestone market.

 

[Zam-Zam]

They declared war on the US. Fighting the war using drones, air power, tomahawk missiles....doesn't matter. We clearly have attempted to limit how many people are killed as we persue those who started this war. Have there been people killed who were innocent? Yes. Were they the target? No. Were they living in close proximity to someone who was the enemy and was the target? Yes.

When you are at war there is the possibility that non-combatants may be killed. If the leadership of Al Qaeda or the Taliban valued their neighbors and loved ones....they'd stay away from them or announce that they were ending their participation in the conflict. There are no other alternatives for them or us.

This is what is being objected to;

A confidential Justice Department memo concludes that the U.S. government can order the killing of American citizens if they are believed to be “senior operational leaders” of al-Qaida or “an associated force” -- even if there is no intelligence indicating they are engaged in an active plot to attack the U.S.




In other words, our government can kill any U.S. citizen at any time, based on nothing more than a belief.

 

[NightSwimmer]

Whoa, red herring alert. When all else fails, change the subject.

Can you provide some empirical evidence that I "do not care" about the victims of violent crime? Or was it just a dumb thing to say?

Who said anything about violent crime? One of these men was shot while sitting in his car at a gas pump late at night because a police officer saw him reach for his cell phone and mistakenly thought he was reaching for a weapon. He had committed no crime.

As for changing the subject, I thought that killing innocent people and depriving Americans of due process was the subject?

Apparently not.