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Grant's Second Civil War

Zam-Zam

Senator
Ulysses S. Grant was tired. Tired from a presidency that was beset by scandal that Grant himself played no role in. He was tired of his aides betraying him. He was tired of his treatment in the press. He was tired of politics.

He was a soldier, and he missed the battlefield. Sure, he fought the Ku Klux Klan and other Democratic forces that opposed Reconstruction and equality for newly freed slaves, but he missed the camaraderie he had with his fellow soldiers.


There, they were united in fighting for a common cause; a cause that they all believed in with all their hearts. They fought to end slavery to be sure, but mostly they fought to preserve the nation that they loved so much.

To Grant, America wasn't so much a union of states but a union of common values, and keeping its people united in upholding those values was the battle that Grant never stopped fighting.

But he was tired, by September of 1875, as his besieged presidency dragged on, he relished the chance to again speak to his soldiers. During a speech at the annual reunion of the Army of the Tennessee in Des Moines, Iowa, he expressed his gratitude to again feel the camaraderie of his war days.

"It always affords me much gratification to meet my old comrades in arms of ten or fourteen years ago, and to live over again in memory the trials and hardships of those days — hard-ships imposed for the preservation and perpetuation of our free institutions," he said. "We believed then, and believe now, that we had a good government, worth fighting for, and, if need be, dying for.

"How many of our comrades of those days paid the latter price for our preserved Union! Let their heroism and sacrifices be ever green and in our memory. Let not the results of their sacrifices be destroyed. The Union and the free institutions for which they fell, should be held more dear for their sacrifices."

Grant recognized that the fight that now divided America was a fight against ignorance.

"If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence," he noted, "I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's, but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition, and ignorance on the other."

Grant noted that America's centennial was coming up the following year, and expressed his hope that Americans always would stand on the side of patriotism and intelligence and never give in to the temptation to destroy the results of America's sacrifice as it fought to uphold its ideals.

"Let us all labor to add all needful guarantees for the more perfect security of free thought, free speech, and free press, pure morals, unfettered religious sentiments, and of equal rights and privileges to all men, irrespective of nationality, color, or religion."

If there were to be a Second Civil War, Grant reasoned, it would be between the forces who believed in these ideals and who would fight to protect them and the forces who would not; who believed instead that America could never live up to these ideals and never did.

In essence, Grant predicted a war that America has never stopped fighting.



 

JackDallas

Senator
Supporting Member
Ulysses S. Grant was tired. Tired from a presidency that was beset by scandal that Grant himself played no role in. He was tired of his aides betraying him. He was tired of his treatment in the press. He was tired of politics.

He was a soldier, and he missed the battlefield. Sure, he fought the Ku Klux Klan and other Democratic forces that opposed Reconstruction and equality for newly freed slaves, but he missed the camaraderie he had with his fellow soldiers.


There, they were united in fighting for a common cause; a cause that they all believed in with all their hearts. They fought to end slavery to be sure, but mostly they fought to preserve the nation that they loved so much.

To Grant, America wasn't so much a union of states but a union of common values, and keeping its people united in upholding those values was the battle that Grant never stopped fighting.

But he was tired, by September of 1875, as his besieged presidency dragged on, he relished the chance to again speak to his soldiers. During a speech at the annual reunion of the Army of the Tennessee in Des Moines, Iowa, he expressed his gratitude to again feel the camaraderie of his war days.

"It always affords me much gratification to meet my old comrades in arms of ten or fourteen years ago, and to live over again in memory the trials and hardships of those days — hard-ships imposed for the preservation and perpetuation of our free institutions," he said. "We believed then, and believe now, that we had a good government, worth fighting for, and, if need be, dying for.

"How many of our comrades of those days paid the latter price for our preserved Union! Let their heroism and sacrifices be ever green and in our memory. Let not the results of their sacrifices be destroyed. The Union and the free institutions for which they fell, should be held more dear for their sacrifices."

Grant recognized that the fight that now divided America was a fight against ignorance.

"If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence," he noted, "I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's, but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition, and ignorance on the other."

Grant noted that America's centennial was coming up the following year, and expressed his hope that Americans always would stand on the side of patriotism and intelligence and never give in to the temptation to destroy the results of America's sacrifice as it fought to uphold its ideals.

"Let us all labor to add all needful guarantees for the more perfect security of free thought, free speech, and free press, pure morals, unfettered religious sentiments, and of equal rights and privileges to all men, irrespective of nationality, color, or religion."

If there were to be a Second Civil War, Grant reasoned, it would be between the forces who believed in these ideals and who would fight to protect them and the forces who would not; who believed instead that America could never live up to these ideals and never did.

In essence, Grant predicted a war that America has never stopped fighting.



Such a great man, Grant, but seemingly disaffected by his greatness. Dying of throat cancer, he spent his diminishing, time on this mortal coil, desperately writing his memoirs to leave a legacy and enough money for his family to survive him after his death.
The ignorant, of whom you spoke, recently took down a statue of Grant. I could speculate and claim they did it because Grant killed more Democrats than Covid 19 has. But I doubt they even know who he was.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
Such a great man, Grant, but seemingly disaffected by his greatness. Dying of throat cancer, he spent his diminishing, time on this mortal coil, desperately writing his memoirs to leave a legacy and enough money for his family to survive him after his death.
The ignorant, of whom you spoke, recently took down a statue of Grant. I could speculate and claim they did it because Grant killed more Democrats than Covid 19 has. But I doubt they even know who he was.

If you're interested, the History Channel currently has a three-part documentary on the subject of Grant:



I feel sad for those who don't take an interest in history - They miss an opportunity to expand their minds.
 

JackDallas

Senator
Supporting Member
If you're interested, the History Channel currently has a three-part documentary on the subject of Grant:



I feel sad for those who don't take an interest in history - They miss an opportunity to expand their minds.
I'll check it out. I have just about given up watching the History Channel. Lately it seems all they have on is all kinds of crap except history stuff.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
I'll check it out. I have just about given up watching the History Channel. Lately it seems all they have on is all kinds of crap except history stuff.
They seem to have a lot less history than you would think their name would indicate. Still, there's also a three-parter on Washington and one on Jefferson available this month.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
More on Grant:

Grant Takes on the Klan



(An excerpt, here):

The only answer, Grant judged, was new federal authority. In 1871 he asked Congress to write a law allowing him to deal with the Klansmen. “A condition of affairs now exists in some of the States of the Union rendering life and property insecure and the carrying of the mails and the collection of the revenue dangerous,” he told the legislators. The reference to the mails and revenue was shrewd: Being patently within the purview of the federal government, they provided constitutional cover for action. Grant noted that “the power to correct these evils is beyond the control of the State authorities,” but it wasn’t clear, he added, that the president had power, within the limits of existing laws, to deal with emergencies like this.

So he made a pitch for extraordinary powers, embodied in a bill that would allow him to suspend habeas corpus in sections of the South. “I urgently recommend such legislation as in the judgment of Congress shall effectually secure life, liberty, and property and the enforcement of law in all parts of the United States,” he said.

Grant’s request sparked outrage from Democrats, who called it the most repugnant form of partisanship...

...The Klansmen ignored him, as Grant expected they would. So in October 1871, he cracked down. Employing his special powers, he suspended habeas corpus in nine counties of South Carolina most seriously affected by Klan violence and sent in federal marshals and federal troops. The purpose of the habeas suspension was to let the marshals and troops round up suspected terrorists without concern about producing legal justification before a judge. Several hundred marauders were quickly arrested while other suspects fled the counties and the state to avoid detention. The assault disrupted Klan networks and instilled the fear of federal power in many South Carolinians who had supplied tacit support to the organization. The sweep stopped the civil unrest and demonstrated the resolve of the federal government to defend the rights of the freedmen.





The more you know, etc.
 

JackDallas

Senator
Supporting Member
More on Grant:

Grant Takes on the Klan



(An excerpt, here):

The only answer, Grant judged, was new federal authority. In 1871 he asked Congress to write a law allowing him to deal with the Klansmen. “A condition of affairs now exists in some of the States of the Union rendering life and property insecure and the carrying of the mails and the collection of the revenue dangerous,” he told the legislators. The reference to the mails and revenue was shrewd: Being patently within the purview of the federal government, they provided constitutional cover for action. Grant noted that “the power to correct these evils is beyond the control of the State authorities,” but it wasn’t clear, he added, that the president had power, within the limits of existing laws, to deal with emergencies like this.

So he made a pitch for extraordinary powers, embodied in a bill that would allow him to suspend habeas corpus in sections of the South. “I urgently recommend such legislation as in the judgment of Congress shall effectually secure life, liberty, and property and the enforcement of law in all parts of the United States,” he said.

Grant’s request sparked outrage from Democrats, who called it the most repugnant form of partisanship...

...The Klansmen ignored him, as Grant expected they would. So in October 1871, he cracked down. Employing his special powers, he suspended habeas corpus in nine counties of South Carolina most seriously affected by Klan violence and sent in federal marshals and federal troops. The purpose of the habeas suspension was to let the marshals and troops round up suspected terrorists without concern about producing legal justification before a judge. Several hundred marauders were quickly arrested while other suspects fled the counties and the state to avoid detention. The assault disrupted Klan networks and instilled the fear of federal power in many South Carolinians who had supplied tacit support to the organization. The sweep stopped the civil unrest and demonstrated the resolve of the federal government to defend the rights of the freedmen.





The more you know, etc.
The Democrats have never changed. Just as they did, after losing the ACW, they never choose to obey the law.
Democrats never accepted the Emancipation Proclamation, even after Atlanta burned down and Lee surrendered at Appomattox. Instead of accepting that they had lost, they did everything in their power to forestall and keep from allowing blacks to actually receive their constitutional rights, for which the war was fought to ensure them.
They created the KKK, Jim Crow laws, poll taxes and tests, segregation, Separate but equal was the running joke when I was in school. Black schools were separate but far from equal.
When Democrats lose, they act like they didn't lose and go right on with their agenda like there had been no election. And the Republicans, who urge us to vote for them, as a counterbalance, sit on their cowardly asses and let it happen.
They lost the 2016 election and immediately set out to overturn the results of that election.
They are going to lose the next election and, the way things seem to be stacking up, we are most likely going to have to take up arms and defend our homes and families from these animals because they are not going accept this loss like law-abiding citizens.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
The Democrats have never changed. Just as they did, after losing the ACW, they never choose to obey the law.
Democrats never accepted the Emancipation Proclamation, even after Atlanta burned down and Lee surrendered at Appomattox. Instead of accepting that they had lost, they did everything in their power to forestall and keep from allowing blacks to actually receive their constitutional rights, for which the war was fought to ensure them.
They created the KKK, Jim Crow laws, poll taxes and tests, segregation, Separate but equal was the running joke when I was in school. Black schools were separate but far from equal.
When Democrats lose, they act like they didn't lose and go right on with their agenda like there had been no election. And the Republicans, who urge us to vote for them, as a counterbalance, sit on their cowardly asses and let it happen.
They lost the 2016 election and immediately set out to overturn the results of that election.
They are going to lose the next election and, the way things seem to be stacking up, we are most likely going to have to take up arms and defend our homes and families from these animals because they are not going accept this loss like law-abiding citizens.

I'm guessing the 'geniuses" who tore down Grant's statue in San Francisco were blissfully unaware of Grant's crusade against the Klan.

They might have known if they had ever bothered to pick up a book and read it.

Their unfortunate acts are fueled, in part at least, by their profound ignorance.
 

JackDallas

Senator
Supporting Member
I'm guessing the 'geniuses" who tore down Grant's statue in San Francisco were blissfully unaware of Grant's crusade against the Klan.

They might have known if they had ever bothered to pick up a book and read it.

Their unfortunate acts are fueled, in part at least, by their profound ignorance.
Either that or the one smart one among them read that Grant had killed more Democrats than Covid 19 has to date.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
Grant fought the Klan...racists. He fought southern racists....

The Klan now shows up to Unite the Right rallies and the South votes republican.
The Klan of Grant's time no longer exists - He successfully eradicated it. This new fringe group of misguided misfits is an extremist group didn't form until after World War I.

Democrats were in opposition to Civil Rights as recently as the sixties:

1594742746710.png


And Democrat Robert Byrd actually was a member of the modern KKK.

Facts matter.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
I'm guessing the 'geniuses" who tore down Grant's statue in San Francisco were blissfully unaware of Grant's crusade against the Klan.

They might have known if they had ever bothered to pick up a book and read it.

Their unfortunate acts are fueled, in part at least, by their profound ignorance.
Has it crossed your mind that the animosity towards Grant is coming from the American Indian community? Whether you agree or disagree...he was responsible for the deaths of a lot of Indians.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
The Klan of Grant's time no longer exists - He successfully eradicated it. This new fringe group of misguided misfits is an extremist group didn't form until after World War I.

Democrats were in opposition to Civil Rights as recently as the sixties:

View attachment 54571


And Democrat Robert Byrd actually was a member of the modern KKK.

Facts matter.
You are aware of the fact that the South is now republican...right? There were 11 members of congress who were republicans from Southern states in 1964. Now there are over 100.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
Has it crossed your mind that the animosity towards Grant is coming from the American Indian community? Whether you agree or disagree...he was responsible for the deaths of a lot of Indians.

If you read newspaper accounts, there is no mention of any Native Americans or Native American groups participating in the destruction of Grant's statue in San Francisco.

There is mention of BLM, and the fact it was Juneteenth.

If you have any evidence to support this theory, I'll be glad to look at it.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
The Democrats have never changed. Just as they did, after losing the ACW, they never choose to obey the law.
Democrats never accepted the Emancipation Proclamation, even after Atlanta burned down and Lee surrendered at Appomattox. Instead of accepting that they had lost, they did everything in their power to forestall and keep from allowing blacks to actually receive their constitutional rights, for which the war was fought to ensure them.
They created the KKK, Jim Crow laws, poll taxes and tests, segregation, Separate but equal was the running joke when I was in school. Black schools were separate but far from equal.
When Democrats lose, they act like they didn't lose and go right on with their agenda like there had been no election. And the Republicans, who urge us to vote for them, as a counterbalance, sit on their cowardly asses and let it happen.
They lost the 2016 election and immediately set out to overturn the results of that election.
They are going to lose the next election and, the way things seem to be stacking up, we are most likely going to have to take up arms and defend our homes and families from these animals because they are not going accept this loss like law-abiding citizens.
The southerners have never changed. Just as they did, after losing the ACW, they never choose to obey the law.
Southerners never accepted the Emancipation Proclamation, even after Atlanta burned down and Lee surrendered at Appomattox. Instead of accepting that they had lost, they did everything in their power to forestall and keep from allowing blacks to actually receive their constitutional rights, for which the war was fought to ensure them.
They created the KKK, Jim Crow laws, poll taxes and tests, segregation, Separate but equal was the running joke when I was in school. Black schools were separate but far from equal.
When Southerners lose, they act like they didn't lose and go right on with their agenda like there had been no election.

Fixed it for ya. Now the South is solidly republican when it comes to presidential elections.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
You are aware of the fact that the South is now republican...right? There were 11 members of congress who were republicans from Southern states in 1964. Now there are over 100.

I know that there are Democrats in the North, and in the South.

I know that there are Republicans in the North, and in the South.

I know that the Republican Party has never embraced the KKK, and that the Democratic Party once did.

Now elements of the current DNC are ready embrace groups that topple statues and enflame racial tensions.

These are facts, and they are not in dispute.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
If you read newspaper accounts, there is no mention of any Native Americans or Native American groups participating in the destruction of Grant's statue in San Francisco.

There is mention of BLM, and the fact it was Juneteenth.

If you have any evidence to support this theory, I'll be glad to look at it.
Do you have evidence of BLM folks tearing down the statue? If so, I'll be glad to look at it. The only other info is that Grant did own a slave.
 
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